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Seraph on IDM an DDM
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seraph
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2005 3:35 pm    Post subject: Seraph on IDM an DDM Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I have often read about this IDM acronym on this forum but I can only guess what it's all about. I know it stands for Intelligent Dance Music and nothing else so I was wondering what kind of music could be categorized under this label. Before writing this article I took an IQ test on line to make sure to be intelligent enough to write about IDM even if the cautions said:

1. If American English is not your native language, your reported IQ score may be negatively affected.
2. If you feel you may have an educational problem, a learning disability, or a psychological disorder, please consult with a mental health professional before taking this test.

It was almost disheartening but I was on a mission so I kept going. I have been thinking about this article for awhile. I may also add that I have been listening to a lot of DDM (dumb dance music) and, I admit, also wrote music on that style without much success, maybe because of my IQ. I am posting a remix of some of my disco efforts (based on three different songs played simultaneously) to show what I mean. Anyway, here are my conclusions on what should be filed under the IDM label and how to distinguish it from DDM.

The foremost peculiarity of this style should be its time/meter that must be compound or, even better, uneven/asymmetrical. Nothing makes you look more intelligent than dancing to a 7/8 rhythm with shifting patterns of triplets and duplets. and that brings us to my second consideration:

The origin of IDM must be traced back to Balkanian/Gypsy folk music.

To demonstrate my point I am posting a very intelligent example of IDM based on the music of the greatest (and may I say, most intelligent) IDM composer of all times: Bela Bartok. This is my arrangement of the first movement of his Suite for piano op.14

Just in case anyone could envision a case of copyright infringement for posting it, I could reply that the commercial value of this arrangement IMHO is below zero. Wink

Thanks for listening! and if anyone can come up with even more intelligent thoughts about IDM feel free to post them here Exclamation

arrow Listen to DiscoSeraph

arrow Listen to Suite for piano op.14

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The man that hath no music in himself, nor is not mov'd with concord of sweet sounds, is fit for treasons, stratagems and spoils; the motions of his spirit are dull as night and his affections dark as Erebus: Let no such man be trusted. - W. Shakespeare

Last edited by seraph on Fri Mar 25, 2016 1:11 am; edited 7 times in total
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2005 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

For those interested in technical details I could add that the DiscoMix was done exclusively with Ableton Live from my original masters (I am not only the composer but the lyricist too Shocked ) The featured male singer is DJ Gecko pitchshifted down a bit.
The IDM Bartok rendition was built with Emagic Logic Audio "rewired" to Propellerhead Reason.

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The man that hath no music in himself, nor is not mov'd with concord of sweet sounds, is fit for treasons, stratagems and spoils; the motions of his spirit are dull as night and his affections dark as Erebus: Let no such man be trusted. - W. Shakespeare
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2005 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread


Editor's note: I have removed the text of this post. It was disrespectful and inappropriate. See http://electro-music.com/catalog/conditions.php --mosc
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2005 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

From the wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligent_dance_music

Quote:
Criticisms of the name

The term "intelligent dance music" is often criticized for not being an actual description of the music genre. Whether or not intelligence or dancing are involved, or whether everybody's else music is stupid, in particular, the name was apparently more memorable than other competing phrases (see: memetic replicator). This is probably due in large part to the high volume of the aforementioned IDM mailing list. Later, Otto Von Schirach aided the replication of the "IDM" meme by mockingly shouting "IDM" repeatedly on the first track of the EP compilation album "Chopped Zombie Fungus". Detractors of the phrase have occasionally used the term "dolphin music" as a disparaging alternative to "intelligent". Rephlex Records refers to IDM as "braindance".
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2005 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hey Carlo, made me smile.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2005 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

K, I really don´t think Carlo speaks retardese at all. You can blame us european guys for being wackos.. making fools of ourselves and delivering a kind of english that is pretty non-english.. go on.. you can do that.. we can take it.. but I really don´t agree with you re what you are really saying about Carlo. That said, I must add that a lot of the posts here by the dutch and the italians and the rest of the euro crowd all have a kind of .. something.. that we ( the euro lot ) can understand. This is a kind of european silliness that we all can relate to.. even the brits.. Very Happy .. especially the brits.. they have been kicking our ass every time we have invaded that godforsaken rock. ( Hmm. sooner or later we should let the swedes have a go. )
I might be wong about this, but the way I see the actual message Carlo is delivering here, it is as an offbeat italian attempt at deconstruction by multiconstruction and he is actually making some interesting points here but I reckon this is lost if you don´t share a certain common cultural outloook on .. uh.. things.. I am not suggesting you lack culture, whatever that is, but I am pretty sure you are not reading Carlo the way the non-english are reading him.
And yes.. he made me smile too..

A more important side to this is that I actually suddenly got a bit of what IDM is/can be and also what the remix/mix thing is .. and that has eluded me for years. I am pretty sure I could have redone the seraph disco track into a very IDMish thing that really could have hit potential. This is the first time I have wanted to redo someone elses music in order to fix small issues and get it grooving even more.

So what is this ..? Carlo has simply done a futurist montage of his own stuff and ended up with some illiumination ( sans the Dan Brown spice ). Not bad. The Bartok track is a bit crude but I tend to see the notation while crude tracks play and he is making some good points here too. And doing this with no streetfighting is pretty well handled if you ask me.

And yes... I have had to mess about with the 1916 suite for piano ( op. 14 ) myself, at the age of 9. Carlo´s version is interesting if you have had that kind of experience with the piece. Having similar backgrounds I reckon Carlo expected me and others here to have that kind of knowledge about op.14.

I don´t know you. K. You might be a skilled IDM musician who knows what this is about and you felt offended by some gibberish about the nature of IDM. if that is the case, I might really have offended you in some of my other posts. I am fairly certain I might have dropped some acidic comments about IDM like a year ago or so. However, members here have posted stuff that is supposed to be IDM and I have loved most of it bigtime. I am still not completely sure what IDM is about and I really don´t think it matters.

Carlo... the seraphdisco thing is in fact experimental music Shocked
Now I want to layer my own stuff with some Fartein Valen, Sæverud and The Talking Heads. A "fatal overdose" anyone?

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2005 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

K wrote:
Dullard, do yourself and everyone else a favor, take a fatal overdose of your medication.


Everyone is entitled to having an opinion about others works, but for me words like these go too far. I'd consider 'm to be pretty insulting when they would have been directed to me.

K, you could simply have said something like that you don't like ...

I think some appolaogies would be justified here.

Jan.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2005 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Blue Hell wrote:

I think some appolaogies would be justified here.


Seconded, This was uncalled for.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2005 11:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I know that Seraph's post is very tongue-in-cheek. I like IDM quite a bit, although the name is a bit ridiculous. Still, I don't think it is a bad name. This music can be quite heady. I like the irregular shuffling rhythms, and the stretched percussion sounds that are more pure electronic sounds than conventional drums from a trap set.

I don't get the first track by Compositron, especially in relation to a discussion of IDM. I believe it is satirical, but I don't get it.

I like the Bartok track. I wouldn't in any way think it was in the IDM genre, but I like it nonetheless. It seems a fair treatment of Bartok, one of my favorite composers. It's funny we don't see more reference to Bartok in discussions of music. I guess he wasn't so much a revolutionary as much of a master craftsman. scratch

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 12:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I wake up this morning and I see all these replies of which I have not been notified even though I always have the "Notify me when a reply is posted" button on
The "K" guy is a close friend of mine so he thinks to have the privilege to insult me. I'm sure he visited http://www.insultmonger.com/ to generate some random insult. Forgive him, he's an a**hole dunno

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The man that hath no music in himself, nor is not mov'd with concord of sweet sounds, is fit for treasons, stratagems and spoils; the motions of his spirit are dull as night and his affections dark as Erebus: Let no such man be trusted. - W. Shakespeare
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 1:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

g2ian wrote:
Hey Carlo, made me smile.

Elektro80 wrote:
And yes.. he made me smile too..

Very Happy that's an accomplishment already Very Happy

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The man that hath no music in himself, nor is not mov'd with concord of sweet sounds, is fit for treasons, stratagems and spoils; the motions of his spirit are dull as night and his affections dark as Erebus: Let no such man be trusted. - W. Shakespeare
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 2:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

elektro80 wrote:
K, I really don´t think Carlo speaks retardese at all...
Now I want to layer my own stuff with some Fartein Valen

well...maybe my sense of humour is a bit wicked and not welcome here but I forgive you for not getting it Twisted Evil
btw who is Fart Einvalen Question
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 2:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

elektro80 wrote:
The Bartok track is a bit crude... I have had to mess about with the 1916 suite for piano ( op. 14 ) myself, at the age of 9...

you are right about the Bartok track being a bit crude but it is just an experiment and I didn't want to spend too much time on it. Actually I dream of releasing a "SOB" (Switched On Bartok) project (this acronym has already been used for Switched On Bach by Wendy/Walter Carlos), but I don't know if I will ever be able to complete such a huge project. I already have an idea of which pieces I would like to arrange for it and one is this suite, of course Very Happy
at age 9 I could barely pick my nose Wink

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The man that hath no music in himself, nor is not mov'd with concord of sweet sounds, is fit for treasons, stratagems and spoils; the motions of his spirit are dull as night and his affections dark as Erebus: Let no such man be trusted. - W. Shakespeare
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 5:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well, then it´s ok. I have friends like that too ;¬).

I agree with your writing on IDM, I think many people do, even people who have a fair bit of it in their crates. I only now listened to your works since back when I posted my last post it was realy late. I enjoyed both pieces though I don´t realy find them particularly IDM-ish either. The first one reminds me of the first Trash album on Mille Plateaux "Industrialsamplecorecoughbeat" or something along those lines. It´s realy on the border between plunderphonics, mashups and IDM. Fine with me.

The second piece is quite nice too, but maily because I hear where you want to go with it. As far as I´m concerened it deserves a more indepth treatment, I think the idea is worth this time if you have it. Good idea, not unpleasant sound.

If you´d like to do something else in this direction; why not take on glitch? Glitch has become at least as silly as IDM, now that Live (and probably other programs too) come with presets called "glitch" (check impulse´s presets). I´d love to see and hear you do a similar treatment on that.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 7:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Kassen
the problem is that I don't have idea what IDM, glitch etc. means Shocked THX for your nice words Very Happy

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The man that hath no music in himself, nor is not mov'd with concord of sweet sounds, is fit for treasons, stratagems and spoils; the motions of his spirit are dull as night and his affections dark as Erebus: Let no such man be trusted. - W. Shakespeare
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 7:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

seraph wrote:
Kassen
the problem is that I don't have idea what IDM, glitch etc. means Shocked


In that case I think you should first down a sixpack, then do it anyway.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 7:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Kassen wrote:
seraph wrote:
Kassen
the problem is that I don't have idea what IDM, glitch etc. means Shocked


In that case I think you should first down a sixpack, then do it anyway.

gee...I don't even drink alcoholics Shocked what can I do Question

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 8:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

K wrote:
maybe my sense of humour is a bit wicked and not welcome here but I forgive you for not getting it Twisted Evil


Thanks, K. I suspected you were joking but I really couldn't tell. Maybe I overreacted by removing your post, but sometimes things might give unforseen impressions when they are in writing on a public forum.

Reminds me of an old Western movie I saw once. Two tough strangers ride into town - they call each other Tex and Shortie. They are chumming it up at the bar and Tex calls Shortie by name several times and Shortie seems not the slightest bit bothered by it. Then some slightly loaded but friendly guy comes up and bumps into Shortie and Shortie looks a bit aggitated. The guy says something like, "Sorry, Shortie, I didn't see you." Shortie pulls his gun on the guy and tells him to start saying his prayers with and intensity that implied there wasn't much time for anything else. The guy asks, "Why; what did I do?" Shortie said, "You called me Shortie. Nobody calls me Shortie and lives." The guy says, "But Tex has been calling you Shortie all night." Shortie says, "He's my friend. He's the only one that can do that." Shortie didn't kill this guy, but through the rest of the movie most people called Shorty by the name of Sir. Laughing

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 8:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

seraph wrote:

gee...I don't even drink alcoholics Shocked what can I do Question


hmmmm, that´s a tricky one. you could paint a black cross on your hand instead and pretend to be straight edge, that way you can still have a punkrock additude to your experiments. i propose you also wear some old shirts inside out, just to make sure.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mosc wrote:
I don't get the first track by Compositron, especially in relation to a discussion of IDM. I believe it is satirical, but I don't get it.

don't worry Howard, I don't get it either Shocked
mosc wrote:
I like the Bartok track. I wouldn't in any way think it was in the IDM genre, but I like it nonetheless. It seems a fair treatment of Bartok, one of my favorite composers. It's funny we don't see more reference to Bartok in discussions of music. I guess he wasn't so much a revolutionary as much of a master craftsman. scratch

I thinks he's one of the fathers of ethnomusicology. he used primitive recording technology to record popular music that he transcribed and incorporated, transfigured and elaborated, on his music. He's one of the greatest musical geniuses of XXth century. I love his percussive use of the piano. check this beautiful website:

arrow http://www.bartokmuseum.hu/

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

While we are linking Bartok stuff. Here are some MIDI files: http://www.midiworld.com/bartok.htm
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2005 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Having studied quite a bit of Bartok and feeling that I have comftorable grasp on what "IDM" "is", I agree with the comparrisions. Maybe the resulting sounds of Bartok's music do not "sound" like something IDM, but I think the similarities are greater in how the respective instrument(s) are approached. Bartok approached the piano with a certain technical degree, often exploring the less common or non-traditional sounds. A lot of IDM composers can be said to have followed a similar mentality too when approaching sequencing tools and/or electronic instruments.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2005 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Bartok's Music for Strings, Percussion and Celesta is IMO one of the greatest musical works of 20th century. I have actually had thoughts of making an electronic version of the third part. (That one was also featured in Kubrik's Shining.)
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