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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » MusicFromOuterSpace.com designs by Ray Wilson
substitutes for Sound Lab IC´s
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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 3:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The Soundlab doesn't use pin 2(15) (the linearisation diodes bias is connected here) so I don't think it matters.
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dnny



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

there are differences between LM131700 and LM13600

Scott Stites wrote:
The LM13700 has the Darlington buffer unbiased, where in the LM13600,
the darlington is biased by the Iabc current.

The gain cell between the two is identical. Therefore, if you are not using the buffers, there would be no discernible difference between the two.

There are a few cases where one device may work fine, but the other not so fine. One case I recall is the original MS-20 filter (the later version that used the LM13600 OTA instead of the custom Korg IC) - JH noted on the Synth DIY list that replacing the LM13600 with an LM13700 did not work out too well - there was more thumping with the LM13700.

But, as mentioned before, if you're not using the Darlington buffer, there's nothing to worry about, and I imagine in most applications, even when using the buffer, one probably wouldn't notice much difference, except, perhaps in some cases, on fast transients.

Cheers,
Scott


anyone got SL running on LM13600 ?

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Last edited by dnny on Thu Apr 06, 2006 10:39 am; edited 1 time in total
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dnny



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Mikmo wrote:
Just a little warning.

You can't always substitute 13600 for 13700. 13700 have linearisation diodes, 13600 does not.

If Rays design uses these diodes you can NOT use the 13600 in stead of the 13700.

I do not know if this is the case though.


if you look at the Datasheet of LM13600
it says :
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

i would say it has linearisation diodes.
or is there something that i don´t understand ?

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Scott Stites
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

FWIW, Electronic Goldmine has twice now sold the LM13600 for an excruciatingly low price. I overbought and ended up selling some of them to Ray - he was quite satisfied with how they worked in at least his VCA design, and I'd really be surprised if they didn't work fine in his other designs as well. The MS-20 filter is far removed from the silky goodness of Ray's filters....

V-un-V ain't got nuthin' on me for Sound Lab procrastination - I've had a PCB for nearly two years now without once marring its surface with solder. When the time comes, I'll try LM13600's on it.

Cheers,
Scott

Edit: Oh, yes, also I don't think the linearization diodes would be the key - it's if the built in Darlington buffers (pins 7&8 and 9&10) are used that might make a difference in some cases.
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EraSer



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

hello everybody Very Happy

Can TL082and TL084 be good substitutes for LF442 & LF444?
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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ray said they are generally fine, but that he had a problem with TL0XXs and the Soundlab, but he couldn't remember which bit it was. Try them out and replace if you need to later. It won't hurt anything.
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EraSer



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PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 12:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

thank you Uncle Krunkus Wink
....unfortunately here in my city some ICs are unavailable & (according to traders) 'obsolete' Question .
I think the best way is buy ICs from electronics-store on-line... Laughing

bye
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 3:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

balance wrote:
....unfortunately here in my city some ICs are unavailable & (according to traders) 'obsolete' :?: .
I think the best way is buy ICs from electronics-store on-line... :lol:


It is currently somewhat hard to buy electronic components in Europe, which has to do with the switch to lead (and other heavy metals) free products (ROHS compliance) which has to be effective in june or so.

For nearly a year already nobody wants to hold anything of the non lead free stuff in stock and lead free is still not readily available. It's still not clear even exactly what components will or will not be replaced by lead free alternatives, but some will indeed, or already have, become obslolete.

I don't expect the trouble to be over in june, although probably we've had the worsd by now.

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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 3:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I had to get my LF442/4s from Farnell in Sydney. In Australia at least they are definately not the kind of thing you'll find at the local Electronics store. I found the LM13700s to be even harder to get. I had to get them from digikey in the states. They only sell tubes of 25! Let me know if you have trouble with these and I'll send you a couple.
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EraSer



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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2006 5:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Does anyone know if the J304 is a good substitute for MPF102? Confused
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ianbargle



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PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 11:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I used some 2N5484s instead of the MPF102s. The pin outputs are the same and it works fine in my Sound Lab.

http://pdf1.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/view/11486/ONSEMI/2N5484.html
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hassestrom



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PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Mikmo wrote:
Just a little warning.

You can't always substitute 13600 for 13700. 13700 have linearisation diodes, 13600 does not.

If Rays design uses these diodes you can NOT use the 13600
instead of the 13700.

I do not know if this is the case though.


The 13600, 13700, 5517 all have lin'z-diodes at the input stage
so there is no difference, however what differ is input impedance
of the buffer stage and how these are built internally.

13600, as Iabc varies, bias varies of buffers, there is changes in
buffer Z , makes the 13600 click with rapid CV changes,
the 13700 does not, the 5517 is also somewhat different.

However this is taken from the data sheets those who needs a
in depth information should go and seek in the SDIY archives
since these issues has been examined troughtfully there.
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Chrometuna



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 12:39 am    Post subject:
Subject description: CD4066 substitutes?
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Hey y'all!
I'm having a hell of a time locating as CD4066 chip for the single bus keyboard circuit.

What could I substitute for the CD4066?

I searched around the forum and couldnt find this chip addressed anywhere.

ALSO:
Is anyone making and selling PCBs for the Single Bus (1 SPST per key) Keyboard to CV, Gate and Trigger??? Please?
http://www.musicfromouterspace.com/analogsynth/keybrdcontroller.html
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Pehr



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 2:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

CD4016 Perhaps ? Confused
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Chrometuna



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 4:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Pehr wrote:
CD4016 Perhaps ? Confused


Will that really work?

I know nothing about chips.

Cheers
bob c
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Pehr



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 5:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I think so. They´re almost the same. The only difference is that 4066 has lower "ON"-resistance, 80 Ohm @ 15V. When 4016 has 280 Ohm @ 15V...

I don't know if that matters for the keyboard... Confused
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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 7:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

No, it doesn't matter.
The 4016 should work fine.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 4:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Etaoin wrote:
I should probably add that my LF411 and 442 are still on order, so although I can't get the VCO to work properly with TL061 and TL062 replacements, I can't yet say it does work with the LF's! I'm just assuming that the reason I can't get it tuned is because I tried replacements. All other components are as specified and it does work fine apart from the tuning.


Did the LF411 and 442 work better?
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alfiollett



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 5:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I've built one using tl074 and tl072 instead of the lf444 and lf442, and it works fine...
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slo



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PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2007 6:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Mouser lists a LM13600 replacement as NJM#13600D for $0.63, can this be used?
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goodrevdoc



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PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2007 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I got a bunch of the similar NJM 13700D's awhile back. They are running just fine in my SLMS. I think the jury's still out on the 13600, but I personally don't see a problem trying.
-justin
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hackbox



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 5:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Uncle Krunkus wrote:
I had to get my LF442/4s from Farnell in Sydney. In Australia at least they are definately not the kind of thing you'll find at the local Electronics store. I found the LM13700s to be even harder to get. I had to get them from digikey in the states. They only sell tubes of 25! Let me know if you have trouble with these and I'll send you a couple.


Actually if you go to www.futurlec.com as opposed to www.futurlec.com.au you can get 'em pretty cheap Wink

Fanell might be fast and reliable but they aren't cheap(as I'm sure you know).

Cheers
A

Edit: damn logical spelling gets me all the time!
The links work now Smile

Last edited by hackbox on Mon Aug 06, 2007 3:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 6:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks for the link Hackbox, but I don't know how to use it Confused Laughing
Where do you go from there?

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hackbox



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Uncle Krunkus wrote:
Thanks for the link Hackbox, but I don't know how to use it Confused Laughing
Where do you go from there?


fixed it the links work now.

I don't understand why some bits aren't on the Australian website when both of them ship from Taiwan.

Cheers
A
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hackbox



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hmm
Building a 2nd soundlab now and they seem to be having trouble sourcing the LM13700's.

Looks like I'm going to have to substitute or go buy from Farnell.

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