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 Forum index » Clavia Nord Modular » Nord Modular G2 Discussion
Noisy output suddenly
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vcs_3



Joined: Jun 08, 2010
Posts: 4
Location: Lusitania

PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 3:56 pm    Post subject: Noisy output suddenly Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi,
my G2 keyboard just start making a noise, like if a earth connection is missing, the noise is continuous, check cable, mixing desk, monitor and finally plug it directly to the Yamaha monitor and the noise was still there.

any ideas of what could be wrong? soldering points, capacitors, DSP ?

Thank you in advance.

Last edited by vcs_3 on Mon Jan 27, 2014 4:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
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xav



Joined: Mar 21, 2005
Posts: 148
Location: paris
Audio files: 8
G2 patch files: 7

PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

What kind of noise is it? High frequencies? on all the outputs?
My 2 G2 have high frequencies noises on output 1 and 2 (I think that occured after a knock). I remember I already had the problem several years ago and Clavia changed the mainboard.
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Blue Hell
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Joined: Apr 03, 2004
Posts: 20623
Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 150
G2 patch files: 318

PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ok, so it is a noise in the signal stream and not a mechanical noise made by the unit itself? And its also present on the headphones output then I guess?

If so ... I'd suspect an issue with the power supply ... possibly one of the electrolytic filter caps gone bad. It may be visible then as a leaking of bulging capacitor .. but not necessarily so ... an oscilloscope would be useful there to diagnose it.

But it could also be something else has gone bad and is drawing too much current.

The Clavia gear can also start making mechanical noise ... also a hum, caused by magnetic interaction between the transformer and the steel case. But this sound is not present in the audio stream, you'd hear it through the air.

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vcs_3



Joined: Jun 08, 2010
Posts: 4
Location: Lusitania

PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

You guys are great!

It's in the signal path, not a mechanical noise Sad

I will check de power supply, because the noise start to appear after
the unit was on for 2 hours, maybe after cooling down the noise disappears and return after some component reach a specific temperature.

Tomorrow I will open the G2 and check the power because I'm do SDIY, so
my problem are the parts.

Keep sending ideas.

Thank you.
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xav



Joined: Mar 21, 2005
Posts: 148
Location: paris
Audio files: 8
G2 patch files: 7

PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 1:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

In all the outputs?
In my case, phone output is the cleanest path. It's interesting to measure noise ratio between audio pairs... In my case there are huge diferencies.
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vcs_3



Joined: Jun 08, 2010
Posts: 4
Location: Lusitania

PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I found the problem:
the USB connection to the PC Laughing

If I unplugged the noise stop!

Have to check the cable (is the original from Nord) and
the ground of the PC.

Thank you for your help.
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ah ... yeah ... it will probably help then to pull the power plug too for the laptop ... I had to groundlift my laptops to get the noise out ... that is leave the mains ground unconnected.
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mosc
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Before you tear up your G2, check out this topic about a usb isolator. I've used this many times now and it works miracles.

http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-51572.html

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xav



Joined: Mar 21, 2005
Posts: 148
Location: paris
Audio files: 8
G2 patch files: 7

PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 4:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

How didn't we think about that usb connection, always a problem with the G2. Sometimes it doesn't occur, but I don't know the exact conditions. Thank you Howard for your solution.
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mosc
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2014 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

xav wrote:
How didn't we think about that usb connection, always a problem with the G2. Sometimes it doesn't occur, but I don't know the exact conditions. Thank you Howard for your solution.


None of my G2s or G1s do this, but as many attest, some certainly do. Apparently, something can happen to USB interfaces that causes this noisy behavior. I suspect it's a static discharge that happens when the cable is inserted; I don't know. A friend of mine locally even had an RME Fireface UFX start flaking out after over a year of quiet service. I say "even" because RME makes some of the heartiest hardware out there. The USB isolator fixed that problem until he had a suitable time to send it in for service.

I always take my USB isolater with me on gigs because you never know...

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Oli



Joined: May 21, 2008
Posts: 247
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 6:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I've just bought 8 USB isolator parts kits for this purpose, from circuitsathome:

http://www.circuitsathome.com/products-page/usb-interfaces

Buying the isolator only parts kit (not with power adapter) costs $25, which is not much more than the price I would get for the isolator chip alone, in small quantities.

One issue I have with the common USB isolator products, is the power supply. I beleve the original market arose for safety and reliability requirements for galvanic isolation in industrial applicatuions. They often feature DC-DC converters, which can also be noisy.

I'm using four dual winding transformers in my design, with filter and regulators, to have isolated power as well.

One thing to be ware of when selecting an isolator is USB speed compatibility. A number of these products are based on the same chip, which allows switching between low or full speed USB. I haven't seen any readily available for high or super speed. It seems most USB audio devices are covered by this anyway.

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