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DS 7 clone
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umschmitt



Joined: Jun 29, 2011
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jumunius wrote:
It is basically a variation on one of the Peasant's Thomas Henry Bass++ mods that I adapted here.

Ok, I get it. It's about clipping your sine with diodes to ground. Inner saturation…
Quote:
It's on Marc Bareille's DS8 not DS7 schematics

That one here ?
http://m.bareille.free.fr/ds7clone/ds8_schem_rev1.pdf
I must be blind… (typical thing with UFOs, some see, some don't)
Still curious to see what you did, though !

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jumunius



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

umschmitt wrote:

That one here ?
http://m.bareille.free.fr/ds7clone/ds8_schem_rev1.pdf
I must be blind… (typical thing with UFOs, some see, some don't)
Still curious to see what you did, though !


Yeah, that schematic. J7 (S1) is at the output of U2:C and J10 (S0) is at the output of U3:D.
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umschmitt



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 8:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Miracle ! I can see !
Now I'd like to hear how it sounds.

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jumunius



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

umschmitt wrote:
Miracle ! I can see !
Now I'd like to hear how it sounds.


Ok, I recorded the VCO section of my DS8 (so basically the same as DS7), with no mods other than the "UFO" switch. I edited this file a bit for clarity and duration, so there is more knob twiddling than you hear here. Note that VCO and LFO pots don't work completely predictably once you enter UFO modes.

1 = No Mod
2 = S0 to S1 jumper
3 = S0 to 20k to S1
4 = S0 to 1.5k to .01uf to S1
5 = Same as above with 1k to ground after cap
6 = same as 4 but with 1k to ground before resistor

The difference between 4 5 and 6 is subtle and I couldn't even remember what was what when editing the file. The LFO rate changes a bit, but more to the point some sound smoother than others. If I get up the nerve to work on this more, I'd probably replace one of these settings with your square LFO mod.

By the way, I like the irony of your can-drinking-bottle profile pic.


DS8_UFO.mp3
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"UFO mod" of DS-7/8

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umschmitt



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thank you very much for these samples. But hey ! you changed voice since your instant hit "No Bump / Bump / Big Bump"* !
Some settings sound quite interesting (specially the one with the jumper), though others sound to me simply more like an LFO on a VCO. I guess it turns into chaos and weird things as soon as you move the knobs, since you feed LFO and VCO into another… Or am I wrong ? Anyway, I may consider adding an "UFO switch" on my ever growing mutant DS-7, if you don't mind. Thanks for that too !

* Actually it could be fun to use this NB/B/BB track as the base of a song, vocals and bass drum are already there !

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jumunius



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

umschmitt wrote:
Thank you very much for these samples. But hey ! you changed voice since your instant hit "No Bump / Bump / Big Bump"* !


Hah, yes I audition new talent each time. I general take whoever has the best pronunciation for the given script.

Quote:
Some settings sound quite interesting (specially the one with the jumper), though others sound to me simply more like an LFO on a VCO. I guess it turns into chaos and weird things as soon as you move the knobs, since you feed LFO and VCO into another… Or am I wrong ?


Well, it's really like 2 LFO's on a VCO. I think the one I'm adding is squarish, so you get some combination of square and triangle at the different settings. From my memory of scoping it, #3 is something like an upside-down crown -- squared on either end, with a few cycles of triangle in between. Nothing you couldn't get with an LFO in the CV input, but it is different than just the triangle alone. #4-6 are some other combination of triangles and squares.

Anyways, the on-board LFO is something that makes my DS-8 unique from my other drum modules, so I figured I'd add anything to trick it out a little and distinguish it from the Thomas Henry ones, etc. Again, hope I get around to adding square in here 'cause that would be a real bonus. I look forward to more info on your other additions to eventually.

Quote:
Actually it could be fun to use this NB/B/BB track as the base of a song, vocals and bass drum are already there !


If someone is so inspired to do so, I happily offer that sample to the public domain. (So long as AT&T doesn't have any objection to use of their voices!)
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umschmitt



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jumunius wrote:
Hah, yes I audition new talent each time.

You mean it's not you singing ? I'm disappointed !
Quote:
Anyways, the on-board LFO is something that makes my DS-8 unique from my other drum modules, so I figured I'd add anything to trick it out a little and distinguish it from the Thomas Henry ones, etc. Again, hope I get around to adding square in here 'cause that would be a real bonus. I look forward to more info on your other additions to eventually.

Not sure I understand well here… You'd like more info ? There's the schematic above, but I may be able to explain clearer, who knows !
So my additions are (at the moment) : square/tri VCO switch, square/tri LFO switch x 2 (VCO and VCF), fast/slow LFO switch, LFO reset on trig switch, VCF, separate EG for VCO/VCF and VCA, audio in (to modulate VCO or VCF) designed as a f-loop with nothing plugged, plus miscellaneous changes in values / ditches here and there. So please add ! Just be prepared to deal with a 20+ knobs/switches module !
Anyway, if you listen to the clip I posted recently, you may notice that the modded DS-7 doesn't sound like a bass drum at all (well sometimes). My intention is more to make it a dirty bass synth…
(Note that the square shaped LFO would be very easy to add for you because you would need any extra opamp : just put the switch before the buffer !)

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umschmitt



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hey jumunius. Funnily, I don't seem to be able to reproduce your UFO sounds (option plain wire connection)… Weird weird weird.
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jumunius



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It's weird that the simplest part of this mod (jumper) doesn't work for you. Are the DS7 and DS8 are more different than I think? Or have we modded (or misbuilt) one of our units so this either works or doesn't?

Thankfully I have a DS7 that is in disuse (no room in my rack right now). I'll plug it in tonight and see what happens when I connect those wires.

I meant to say, regarding your earlier email, that I thought you were still modding and going to release more mods. So that's why I was curious what other details you might release in the future. But if not, no worries, I'm trying to resist the temptation to mod further.

Quote:

(Note that the square shaped LFO would be very easy to add for you because you would need any extra opamp : just put the switch before the buffer !)


I'm confused how I wouldn't need an extra op-amp -- there is an op-amp depicted here right? It's the buffer. Unless I'm misunderstanding I don't have a buffer here currently.
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umschmitt



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jumunius wrote:
It's weird that the simplest part of this mod (jumper) doesn't work for you. Are the DS7 and DS8 are more different than I think? Or have we modded (or misbuilt) one of our units so this either works or doesn't?

Weird is the word. But one thing that I learned is that I must have done something wrong somewhere, and there's a logical explanation to it. I'll try further on but at the moment I just get LFO sound.
Quote:
I thought you were still modding and going to release more mods.

Actually my plan is to make cheap & nasty upgrades to the DS-7 (otherwise at one point, you'd wish to change the VCO, then the VCA, then the LFO, well start another synth). I decided I'd just add an extra LM324, which is now fully used. I even use a couple more transistors. Plus I have no more ideas. Plus I'm far from being an electronics genius.
Quote:
I'm confused how I wouldn't need an extra op-amp -- there is an op-amp depicted here right? It's the buffer. Unless I'm misunderstanding I don't have a buffer here currently.

Yeah, my (quick) idea was that you could use the output buffer of the tri-LFO for either shapes, with a SPDT switch in front of it… With my mod I use another buffer (which is maybe redundant) because both LFO shapes may be used at the same time, one for the VCO, one for the VCF. I'm not sure I'm perfectly clear here. I hope I am otherwise I'll have to draw more schematics !

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umschmitt



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 5:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

An image might be clearer than my confuse explanations.
(and I need to exercise with that *#&ø Gimp !)


switchable LFO shape for DS-7&8.jpg
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an overeasy mod!
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switchable LFO shape for DS-7&8.jpg



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jumunius



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

umschmitt wrote:
An image might be clearer than my confuse explanations.
(and I need to exercise with that *#&ø Gimp !)


Thanks for the drawing -- I was starting to picture it but hadn't gotten around to looking seriously yet. That IS super easy. You might have just convinced me.
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umschmitt



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 7:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jumunius wrote:
That IS super easy.

You name it.

Now, before I make the definitive build, I'm open to all suggestions for additional mods. Like changing the LFO shape / PW without incidence on the rate and amount of the LFO. My attempts finally did work. I tried an adjustable voltage divider in place of the R5/R6 network (schemo above), didn't make it, then tried to buffer it, same result. Perhaps it's simply impossible with this type of LFO after all…
More ideas to suggest, people ?

[edit] Fun facts : in my previous experiments, I had amplified external audio (in that case rhythm) connected to the output of the LFO op-amp (U1:C above), and then the LFO would tend to synchronize itself to the rhythm… I imagine audio was like helping the amp to pass the hysteresis threshold or something. Funny and not so predictable effect. Would have wasted a buffer. But funny.

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feggster



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PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 2:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

hi all, great thread here .. lots of info. I have just came into possession of an original ds-7 (actually a JHS D-2!) I had to replace pots and rewire to get it to work, it now sounds great! looking at the pcbs inside i noticed an empty area of the circuit, I imagine they used the same pcbs for both ds7 and ds8... so my question is: can anyone help with a conversion? Laughing
I have added a jpg that shows what I'm talking about.
p.s. could not find a image of the ds8 board using Google....

cheers.
Geoff.


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umschmitt



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hey. No happy DS-8 owners passing by… Ready for some reverse engineering ? The 741 is obviously in the middle, and I guess the transistors are top left (solder side). Good luck !
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feggster



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 3:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

yeah just a photo of that top board in a ds8 would help a lot Very Happy

like you i guessed the 741 position, dunno about anything else. I only have the schematic from the french site and that might be different?
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umschmitt



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Last minute consideration about DS-7 mods.
It should be better to sum the triangle wave to the square wave instead of switching between them. First because the filter on the triangle makes nearly nothing special (of course), and second it would be a nice feature to be able to boost the fundamental, independently from the action of the filter. Problem is that (I'm pretty sure) both waves are off-phase as is. It'd take an inverting op-amp to do the trick.
(and I had this dream where there was some tremolo available, oooh it was nice)
Besides, the sig-to-trig thing is now more or less working, so I'll start to think about making room on the breadboard and designing the stripboard.
Or do I add one more LM324 ?

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feggster



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 2:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

ok, I was given a couple of gutshots of a ds-8 from Marc Bareille (cheers Smile )
and could work out a lot of the component placement for the add on noise circuit, there is a section in red I could not get a glimpse at! it would be great to work it all out. the 3 sets of wires are for the two pots and the circuit on off switch... someone could add on to the ds-7 stripboard??


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umschmitt



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 3:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well done ! So it was as simple as this… It's nice from Marc, though. What I don't get is that with those DS-8 board pics, you should be able to place every component…
You have two holes unfilled, I'd say they're for a jumper, to allow pins 2 & 6 to connect through the 470k resistor (the vertical unmarked rectangle left of the 741). Note that according to Marc's schem, there should also be a 22p cap across that resistor, to tame the trebles (I don't know much but I think it's usual with 741s). Maybe the engineers at Coron didn't give a f*** about taming any treble whatsoever, just a gang of punks, you see ?
Anyway you simply stick the 22p cap on the solder side and you're done !

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feggster



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 7:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I think you could be right , if you squint looking at the image it looks like a jumper there, I suppose my next step is to build it and see what happens! Smile


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umschmitt



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 7:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yep, looks like a jumper here, and the schemo would agree to this.
(what a stamp you posted !)

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ericcoleridge



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 1:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Can someone confirm that the dual layout posted in this topic works? I made one one this weekend and I'm not getting an output from either side. I can hear the trigger passing thru to the output, and i can hear the VCO and LFO when I monitor other parts of the circuit-- but I guess the VCA isn't working. But it's the same in both sides so either there's a problem w the layout or I must have used a based resistor value somewhere.

I was going to add a switch for two LFO timing caps as someone suggested, a switch for LFO waveforms as illustrated above, and then I thought I'd try to route the LFO to the VCA as a second oscillator.
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ericcoleridge



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I realized what the prob was, I was only powering and testing one side at a time-- it's necesary for both sides to receive power in order for the 13700 to receive both supplies.

The PCB works great. I'm going to try some of the mods
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umschmitt



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 8:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Oh ! Happy 100000 views, topic !
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

hi again! I am building Uncle Krunkus' stripboard layout of the ds7 and I'm a little confused about the capacitors, which is the correct build of materials for this project?
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