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 Forum index » Clavia Nord Modular » NM Classic (NM1 or G1)
NM Classic Trade-In Offer
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cebec



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 7:13 am    Post subject: NM Classic Trade-In Offer Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Wow, what the hell???
And what do you suppose they're going to do with the Classics once they get them?

http://www.clavia.se/news/nmoffer050603.htm
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elektro80
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 7:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Uh.. well.. give them away to artistic but starving russian children? I am close eh? Right?

Or are they to be buried deep underground someplace near Kiruna?

That is a nice deal, but frankly.. the NM-1 series are excellent instruments still. It would be so sad to see most of these go. Imagine Bob Moog announcing a similar trade-in offer?

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cebec



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 7:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

My thoughts, exactly -- Classics are superb, flexible instruments regardless. By no means are they 'obsolete' or 'unusable' -- It's a curious move. I wonder how well they'll do. I'm actually considering getting a micro or holding out for a deal on a KB or rack. Shouldn't have gotten rid of it in the first place -- I want one just to have one, even!
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Tusker



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 7:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I find it to be interesting that they don't differentiate between a G2 and G2X. One of the limitations of the G1 that I feel strongly about, is the lack of reverb and delay. I find that I am hobbled by the need to change effects with patches.

I know the G2 has an improvement in the delay lines, but is this sufficient to do simple delay, as you would in say a virus or rompler synth? I realize it's no Eventide. But I'm just looking to dress up some sounds, primarily for live applications. Also is there any reverb capability at all? Can you construct rooms and plates with it?

Thx,

Jerry
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elektro80
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Cebec, I reposted this one in the gear section. We can keep the discission here though.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 8:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I have the NM-1 keyboard version with the expansion thingie. I think it awesome and I cannot even see any G2 series device to be a substitution for it. However, I can see the G2s are "better".. well.. you know...

The NM-1 is a grand substitution for a lot of the Roland modular gear though. Here in my studio it does the System 100 and 700 tasks.. magnificently.

I see the lack of real delay and reverb in the NM-1 being a "problem". In the old days you would have level adapaters and route the signal to outboard and then back to the modules. Personally I see compressors/limiters, reverbs and delays to be an important part of synthesis. I know this can be argued, but that is how I see it. Anyway, my NM-1 will stay where it is. I love it.

Soundwise, it has that Roland late 70s / early 80s analog sound ( System 100/ System 700, ProMars, SH2 etc ) I like that sound, but it is quite possible to fatten it significantly towards some of those Yamaha CS style sounds/ some of the Oberheims and the Moogs. And it can also sound "modern" and digital. Bottom line: the NM-1 series is a classic line of synths.

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seraph
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 8:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

elektro80 wrote:
I have the NM-1 keyboard version with the expansion thingie. I think it awesome and I cannot even see any G2 series device to be a substitution for it. However, I can see the G2s are "better".. well.. you know...

I guess the price of second hand NM1 will drop after this deal Exclamation

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elektro80
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 8:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

That might be the case. The offer can be understood as an official statement from Clavia stating that the NM-1 series truly is obsolete. This technically might of course also be true, but the NM-1 series is still a line of great instruments.
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Kassen
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

elektro80 wrote:
That might be the case. The offer can be understood as an official statement from Clavia stating that the NM-1 series truly is obsolete. This technically might of course also be true, but the NM-1 series is still a line of great instruments.


Interesting way of phrasing. I realy don´t see how it would be Clavia´s place to declare the NM "obsolete", frankly I think taking technology as a measurement of musical obsoleteness is counterproductive too.

Did the electric guitar make the acoustic guitar obsolete just because it´s more technologically advanced? I think the NM has it´s place; it´s tonal character and it´s interface differ substatially fromt he G2.

I think a good analogy is the harpsychord v.s. the piano. The piano is newer, more advanced and considdered more expressive but we keep harpsychords around so we are able to play the pieces composed for them and some people actually prefer their sound.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Kassen wrote:
I realy don´t see how it would be Clavia´s place to declare the NM "obsolete", frankly I think taking technology as a measurement of musical obsoleteness is counterproductive too


And I don´t think they really do that in this case either. However, how this is percieved is another matter altogether.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

True, that, but isn´t the current value of a second hand NM a bit over 500?
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jksuperstar



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

There used to be a mission statement somewhere on the Clavia site that was along the lines of "We make products that are intended to last a lifetime, and never go out of style". I can't find this statement on teh website anymore.

That said, I think they beleive in the G2, and want to sell more. The NM1 did have a good run for several years, far longer than many synths get today. It'd be nice if more people had the G2, since I'd expect more updates and improvements on Clavia's part to that end. None the less, nobody said you *have* to trade in your NM1. But I think it's a nice gesture on Clavia's part, and might enforce their commitment to the G2.
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Afro88



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Kassen wrote:
True, that, but isn´t the current value of a second hand NM a bit over 500?


About a year ago I bought a micro (which has now been resold) for a little over 400 Shocked

I'm seriously considering buying a NM rack or even a dirt cheap micro to do those other sounds and load the old famous patches I used to muck around with.

Usually with trade-in deals it's assumed that the new machine can do all the old one can do but better. For example, Protools 001 trade in for a HD system. But the G2 can't load G1 patches, and you can't even patch some G1 sounds on the G2 due to a lack of the required modules (filterbank, spectral osc etc.) Considering all the talk on the forums and on this list about the differences in sound between the 2, coupled with the patch inconsistencies, I don't think the trade in idea is that good.

But I guess if people weren't too fond of the G1 and were considering selling it, they could cheaply get a G2...
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Kassen
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well, at this point it´s all specualtion; the G2 is a hard machine to market and Clavia isn´t known for being very open but I think there´s some interesting stuff going on. I don´t know what you guys think about the new look of the promotional material, but in adition to the removal of the "lifetime" quote the whole site, posters and folders look a lot more modern and agressively flashy these days.

It´ll be interesting to see how it all develops.

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Wout Blommers



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PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2005 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The wrong assumption is the thought NM Classic users only lacked € 500 to buy a G2 or G2X. IMHO Clavia never thought about the fact these synths also sound right and most of the users are working with Patches made to the Classic. To get this group updating towards a G2 can be done only by releasing a Patch Converter.

Wout
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Kassen
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2005 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Wout Blommers wrote:
To get this group updating towards a G2 can be done only by releasing a Patch Converter.


Not so sure, I think the true modular fanatics will make a patch whenever they need one. I hardly archive, don´t think Rob archives that much; we just make a new one when we need one.

The NM simply has strong points not found with the G2. THe classics have a better ratio between size and hardware interface, making them ideal to "sub-rockstar" kind of tours based on minivans and suitcases. They also sound different; not everybody agrees with me that the G2 sounds like crap but everybody seems to agree they sound different; thus there are situations for both.

I don´t think it´d be wise or possible to get the G2 to be more like the NM to get people to migrate; we need to look ahead to the future, not back.

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Wout Blommers



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PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2005 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sure, Kassen.

But I think it's an argument to keep your working gear, instead of buying new. I don't believe money is the factor here, so why offering a trade-in offer?

I keep my Classics along side the G2X!

Wout
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Kassen
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2005 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yes, indeed. I firmly beleive that good gear, on a personal level, increases, not decreases, in value, as you get to know it.

From that perspective selling is a very bad idea.....

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elektro80
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2005 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I hope Clavia will tell us how many actually accepted the offer.
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3phase



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2005 5:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Kassen wrote:
Wout Blommers wrote:
To get this group updating towards a G2 can be done only by releasing a Patch Converter.


Not so sure, I think the true modular fanatics will make a patch whenever they need one. I hardly archive, don´t think Rob archives that much; we just make a new one when we need one.

The NM simply has strong points not found with the G2. THe classics have a better ratio between size and hardware interface, making them ideal to "sub-rockstar" kind of tours based on minivans and suitcases. They also sound different; not everybody agrees with me that the G2 sounds like crap but everybody seems to agree they sound different; thus there are situations for both.

I don´t think it´d be wise or possible to get the G2 to be more like the NM to get people to migrate; we need to look ahead to the future, not back.


You blamed the converters...but i think the difference in the sound is deeper in the structure of the G"..and i dont think the G2 sounds crap...more and more patches come out that make it sound...

However there is a distinctiv crunchiness in the NM1 that is gone in the G2.. and i dont think thats the converters that are doing it...
when bring the G2 in certain feedback states it mutes..the NM 1 is doing the job while starting sounding real... There is somehow a big difference between the machines when they get into overloaded states...

But...because this is all software it might be possible to have changes...

Maybe new modules will give the G2 in the future an unfair advantage against the NM1... Sofar its for me just the met noise osc that has really new benefits for me... delays and reverb are nice but not really a big thing...
The nice thing on the NM 1 was to make sounds that dont needed reverb and delays was patched...that gave the sounds an incredible strength when fx got applied later... Its not good when sounds get boosted by reverb fx instead of patch work...

I think the Delay modules can be optimized...
I did somethings with the old DSP compiler software called "Reverb" from Tom Erbe? It would be nice if the G2 could do similar things..
I had fantastic little delay clusters patched with "Reveb"
Like modulating a bunch of 5 ms delay with 15k... readout rate modulation would be nice !

However... I hope we will see some G2 developments that will render the NM1 useless..In the time inbetween i enjoy my brand new NM1 ...Its just can sound so cool together with the G2. I had some really 3 dimensional sounds going before they stole my NM1 last year...And i want to get back to that state, the best sounds i ever had with the nord modular system was when the same patch was running on a G2 and a NM1 in parallel... Nothing i can do with 2 G2...the significant difference in soundcharakter makes the 3D Fx...

Just the multiple editor hazzle...I installed an extra computer to have booth editors running in parallel...

anyway.. i keep the NM1 from now... i dont beliefe in a patchconverter that works with my patches....

Sven
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Kassen
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2005 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Very good points 3phase, I´m much in agreement with many of them. For me the shift registers and related modules are realy the most exciting new thing in the G2 but that´s largely a matter of taste. I do maintain that the DAC´s influence it all, particularly because I spot the same sound in the lead series starting with the second which is also the point at which Clavia switched, as far as I know. Anyway, I realised that thing might simply be some strange thing in my own hearing; some people hear it too, many don´t and still others describe the G2´s high in ways quite unlike how I hear it. It´s all fine with me now.

BTW, I happen to have the first Tresor compilation on Nova-Mute lying around here, that´s you, isn´t it?

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deknow



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2005 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

...as a customer (g2 owner), i find it reassuring that clavia is making the option available. i doubt it will get all the nmclassics off the street, and i doubt that is the goal. providing an upgrade path for those that want to stay "current" is great customer support, even if not everyone takes it....it makes _me_ feel like i'm not trapped with this hardware if something that suits my needs better is to come along later.

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cappy2112



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2005 10:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

deknow wrote:
...as a customer (g2 owner), i find it reassuring that clavia is making the option available. i doubt it will get all the nmclassics off the street, and i doubt that is the goal. providing an upgrade path for those that want to stay "current" is great customer support, even if not everyone takes it....it makes _me_ feel like i'm not trapped with this hardware if something that suits my needs better is to come along later.

deknow


I would be very surprised if CLavia really gets a lot of trade-ins.
And I think Clavia will be surprised at how few they actually get.
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3phase



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2005 6:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Kassen wrote:
Very good points 3phase, I´m much in agreement with many of them. For me the shift registers and related modules are realy the most exciting new thing in the G2 but that´s largely a matter of taste. I do maintain that the DAC´s influence it all, particularly because I spot the same sound in the lead series starting with the second which is also the point at which Clavia switched, as far as I know. Anyway, I realised that thing might simply be some strange thing in my own hearing; some people hear it too, many don´t and still others describe the G2´s high in ways quite unlike how I hear it. It´s all fine with me now.

BTW, I happen to have the first Tresor compilation on Nova-Mute lying around here, that´s you, isn´t it?


Yep...but officially i never was on ...shithead records...so pssst...
I think i know what you reffering about the DAC´s...maybe its them...but when listening to a plain saw osc the NM1 and G2 sound much closer ( you only hear the DCA difference IMO ) than with more complex patches... so there is something more about the difference in sound than just DAC´s...

regarding the new things... sorry i forget about all this logic and switch modules that allowed me to realise certain things that wasnt possible on the NM1. And the performance mode... Not to underestimate this one...
Sysex safeing inside the sequencer...Named knobs ( except the bloody source tag...), Variations... There is quite a lot good things that forced me towards the G2... and i hope that the future will bring even more plus points...
However.. I am happy to be able to access my old patches again...That gives the NM1 a much higher value for me than an additional engine... beside of the interesting crunchiness .... Wink...
And now even the midi out ability of the G2 is interesting for me..i never carred about this one so much..but... its another story with a NM1...You can make the NM1 benefit from the G2´s performancemode via midi...
I enjoy to have booth.

BTW: I asked on the list for people that done multiplexing between VA and FX area... Somebody mentioned your name..
Did you had some results ?

greets
sven
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2005 12:58 pm    Post subject: Re: NM Classic Trade-In Offer Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

cebec wrote:
Wow, what the hell???
And what do you suppose they're going to do with the Classics once they get them?

http://www.clavia.se/news/nmoffer050603.htm


Thanks to Clavia for offering some people a way to get a G2 who might otherwise not have been able to do so.

But personally I would never consider parting with my NM Rack. I've been working with it for a few years now, I love it, and by now I can make patches with this synth faster and better than with any other big synth I have ever used - hardware modular, knob-infested polysynth, whatever. I also have a large set of my own patches that I certanly wouldn't want to lose, and definitely wouldn't want to try to re-create in the G2.

In my case, I already have a G2, so I don't have to make this decision, but in hindsight I can clearly see that having both the NM and a G2 is waaaay better than getting a lower price on a G2 and losing the NM. Using both synths together is wonderful. My advice - keep your NM and live cheap for a few months so you can get your G2!

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