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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » MusicFromOuterSpace.com designs by Ray Wilson
Whacky, Zany, Weird Stripboard Layout
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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 4:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Jason,
It's hard to say what might be wrong without a bit more info. Can you take a photo to post? Check all the component orientations, links, cuts, and external components are right.

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somasix



Joined: Jun 20, 2006
Posts: 11
Location: Brooklyn, NY

PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 8:07 am    Post subject: WSG Stripboard Layout
Subject description: WSG Stipboard Layout Problems
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Here are some images. All the components seem to match up.

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sohcahtoa



Joined: Aug 12, 2006
Posts: 55
Location: Fargo, ND

PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

looks like your "shmitt triger" (CD40106 )might be placed up-side down.
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somasix



Joined: Jun 20, 2006
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Location: Brooklyn, NY

PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 11:57 am    Post subject: WSG Stripboard Layout
Subject description: WSG Stripboard Layout Problems
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All right sochahtoa! Good eye! Thanks! So, that got the WSG working, but it seems a little thin sounding and undervolume for my amp settings.

When my skin makes contact with a couple of places where the wiring meets the circuit, or the pots, the volume jumps to where I would expect it to be, and the sound is fat and the two different oscillators are more audible.

I had a ground wire attached (which was not shown on the layout that I used, but was on another), but it didn't really seem to do much but cut the hum, and most of the circuits' functions when it was attached, so I pulled it out. Was that a bad idea? Will this circuit be better grounded when I wire it inside an enclosure?

Thanks again.
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Credit



Joined: Oct 17, 2006
Posts: 9
Location: Ireland

PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hello everyone.
This is my first time posting anything in electro-music.
I will admit that I’m a bit of a No08, when it comes to electronics,
but I find it interesting so I’m getting into it.
I found the MusicFromOuterSpace site a while back and more recently I saw the WSG page.
By complete chance I found this little Mecca (I think there should be a dedicated link on the WSG page to this forum).
Anyway I digress, back to the my WSG.
I saw Uncle Krunkus talking about his WSG, He said “I've been listening to the sound of a 74HC14 frying!!”.
Now I’m not using the same IC, but I did have a quick look at the spec-sheet for the HCF40106BE which is the one I got, as I said I'm a bit of a No08 so I’m not sure if I got the right thing.
Here is what the spec-sheet said:
Part Number = HCF40106BE
Manufacturer Name = Various
Average Price = 0.182426
Description = Inverting-Function Schmitt Trigger
Circuits Per Package = 6
Hysteresis Voltage Typ. (V) = 2.3
Input Threshold Voltage (+)(V) = 5.9
Input Threshold Voltage (-)(V) = 3.9
Maximum Input Current (A) = 10m
t(PLH) Maximum (S) = 140n
V(OL)Max.(V)Lo Level Out.Volt. = 0.05
V(OH)Min.(V)Hi Level Out.Volt. = 9.95
Nom. Supp (V) = 20
Package = DIP
Pins = 14
Military = N
Technology = CMOS

Is this alright to use?

Also for C10 2u2 NP, on the cap its self it has printed 222, no dots or + - symbols. Am I right to assume it is non-polarised?
Here is a link to the cap it has a value of 2200pF is this ok too?

Many thanks in advance.

=Credit

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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Credit wrote:

Also for C10 2u2 NP, on the cap its self it has printed 222, no dots or + - symbols. Am I right to assume it is non-polarised?
Here is a link to the cap it has a value of 2200pF is this ok too?



welcome Credit,

there must be a thread somewhere about cap values, but the easiest thing to do is to just repeat it a bit here.

p is for pico, n for nano, u for micro and m for mili.

1000 pF = 1 nF
1000 nF = 1 uF
1000 uF = 1 mF
1000 mF = 1 F

a notation like 2u2 is short for 2.2 uF, which thus is 2200 nF so your capicitor is a factor 1000 too small, but it's reasonable to assume it is non polarized (most are in that range of values).

The notation 222 means 22 followed by two zero's (or 2200) and such a specification usually seems to be in pF's.

Someone else will have to say something sensible about the 40106.

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Scott Stites
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The CD40106 you describe is the right IC. Other ICs that will work are the 74C14 and CD4584. Uncle K's 74HC14 turned into a micro-furnace because of the 'H' in the nomenclature (a 74C14 and a 74HC14 are two different beasts as far as voltage requirements go).

Cheers,
Scott
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Credit



Joined: Oct 17, 2006
Posts: 9
Location: Ireland

PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It has been a long time coming but I finally got the wsg built and I am supper happy with the results. =)
It squeaks, squawks, blips, bloops and chatters. Its great.
I still have to sort out some signal bleed which is puzzling me. It seems hat even when the switches are in the off position some sound can still be heard. Probably due to my shabby soldering but still I’m pretty proud I got the thing to sing at all.
I’ll post pics and sound when I have the case and signal leakage sorted.
Thanks for the help (you know who you are). Wink
-Credit.

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LukeDI



Joined: Sep 23, 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hey everyone, long time reader, first time poster (*cough* nerd *cough*). I am somewhat of a newb when it comes to actually building electronic devices and I've got a question about the pots on the WSG stripboard. It would seem that all of the 1M pots only have two contacts on the board and as I'm not particularly familiar with building things on stripboard I'm quite sure how this works. My guess would be that You only need to connect pin 2 to either pin 1 or pin 3 depending on which way you want the action of the knob. Is this right?

Thanks ahead of time,

Luke
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Joel



Joined: Sep 12, 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi Luke,

yep that sounds right, two wires come off the board to each 1M pot, and one of those connects to two of the pins on the pot. For instance if you look at the schematic here the variable resistor at the top left, R5, has pins 1 and 2 connected together. If you wire a pot backwards (i.e. connecting pins 2 and 3, not 1 and 2) it will just have the desired effect in reverse, not really a problem as the wsg is meant to be wacky!!

Hope that helps and good luck, Joel
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LukeDI



Joined: Sep 23, 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2006 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks, now I've got another question. I accidentally bought an electrolytic cap for C10, the 2.2uF cap right before the output. Is this going to be usable or is it time for a run to Radioshack? If I do use it am I correct in thinking that the negative side should be the side connected to the output?
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Joel



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PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2006 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

sounds fine to me, although only based on other things I've read (i.e. not tried it myself)!
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LukeDI



Joined: Sep 23, 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2006 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
sounds fine to me, although only based on other things I've read (i.e. not tried it myself)!
Well I have two so I guess if the first one blows up than I'll put the second one in the other way. Wink If neither works its off to Radioshack.
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condonkey



Joined: Nov 26, 2006
Posts: 16
Location: rhode island

PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

hello, new here!

just wondering where the ground connection would be put? there are no indications on the layout, any help would be great thanks!!
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LukeDI



Joined: Sep 23, 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

condonkey wrote:
hello, new here!

just wondering where the ground connection would be put? there are no indications on the layout, any help would be great thanks!!

There should be one (or two I'm not looking at it) strips marked with a - (minus sign) these connect to the negative terminal if the battery. These serve as the ground in this circuit.
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condonkey



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

and the jack goes to the same ground spot too?
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LukeDI



Joined: Sep 23, 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yup, at least I think so...
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LukeDI



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PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well I just finished my WSG and it mostly works fine. Just one thing, the filter doesn't work. I get output fine but it sounds like it either gives the filter the runaround or the filter control isn't working. Anyone else run into this? any ideas? I have it in a case right now so no pics but I'll put some up later.
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ydear



Joined: Dec 07, 2006
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Location: Germany

PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hello
First of all I want to say thank you to all of you providing the layouts and keep on developing. I recognized that there is also a other thread with a lot of addons such as a noise generator and a volume pot. Really a cool community Very Happy

So I want to build two WSGs as a christmas pressent for two of my friends. Its exactl what they like. Yesterday I finished my first version of the WSG. I builded the stripboardversion on the first side of this thread (The one with 2X wacky, Zany, Weird). It works wonderful except Wacky freq 2 an the according switch. I can do what I want with this pot and switch but the sound is the same. First I soldered the Schmizz trigger the wrong way around and it got realy hot. So may it is damaged. Ill check that tomorrow I hope I can handel this problem on my own. Othewise I will tell you and ask for hints Cool

The reason for my posting is a different one. I want to add a build in speaker. I will add a switch so you can decide where the out singnal goes, to a speaker or the headphone connector. Yesterday I just soldered the speaker to the output and GND. It works but it is very quiet. I mean it is really quite its like a whisper in the wind. If I raise the odness cut of freq I only can hear it when I put the speaker direkt to my ear.

So my question is: Is there a way to raise the volume of my speaker. It is 1W speaker that can often be found as hardware monitor in PCs. So i mean there must be some IC I can buy what manages my problem. Or a simpel circuit?

Thank you Mfg Ydear

P.S.: I will post some pictures when the housing is finished
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LukeDI



Joined: Sep 23, 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

@ydear

First of I have to say you must have cool friends to be giving them WSGs. Second I would think that you could probably just add a dirt simple op-amp gain stage before the speaker, a simple negative feed back set up. You could use any old op-amp (a 714 for example) since you are feeding a 3" 1W speaker you don't have to worry about quality very much.

But hey this is the quick and dirty version if someone has a better idea I'd love to hear it as I'm am already planning another modded out version. After I get the filter on my current one to work that is.
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ydear



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PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hello
The quick and dirty solution is exactly what I am looking for...
I think you mean i can use the LM741 as already used in the layout, right?
I read some stuff about these op amps an finally tried this circuit:
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

So I tried some values for R1 and R2. I think R1= 4,7k and R2= 1k works for me. The sound is a lot louder and still good (but some more louder would also be nice). Does anyone know better values?
So there is still a error. When I switch the wsg on there is no signal at the out of my amplifierer. I have to hit the old output for a second with the speaker cable and everything is fine...
The WSG is meant to be wacky so may I just add a "bug switch" Laughing
Let the musican handle the problem Cool
No really I don't know what to do...
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austrohungaro



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Location: Barcelona (Spain)
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 12:28 pm    Post subject: Unsuccessful newcomer Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hello!

I'm new to the forum, new to DIY, and new to electronics.

I build my WSG on a protoboard, and it worked. My first attempt at reading schematics, buying components, etc.

But... I tried the stripboard version, my first time soldering ever, and it doesn't work, no sound at all, only a slow beat sometimes...

On my first checking, I noticed I soldered the second diode the wrong way, and misunderstood some values for some resistors to the filter chip. I resoldered the three, but it doesn't work. Could it be that I damaged the chips?

I'm very upset. I was making plans for my next diy synth projects, but now I feel a bit useless.
Crying or Very sad
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mosc
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 8:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

welcome ydear and austrohungaro. Great to have you here.

austrohungaro, don't get too discouraged. I first studied electronics privately from an terrific engineer taught me many things and imspired me to study engineering seriously. He said the most important to learn is: "never expect it to work when you first turn it on." I consider this essential.

Sometimes the debugging process of a circuit of computer program takes longer than the building process itself. If you expect this, then you won't get upset and you'll allow yourself to proceed patiently.

I've never built on of these particular devices, but there are people here that will help you. You have to get yourself a volt/ohm meter and learn to use it.

I wish you all the best...

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austrohungaro



Joined: Dec 23, 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 4:37 pm    Post subject: almost working - filter don't Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thank you mosc

I replaced CD40106 IC and it worked!

BUT... The filter pot doesn't work, I checked the pot, replaced it, replaced LM741 OpAmp, checked the wires, soldering... and it just doesn't affect the sound!

Any idea? Is it possible to test capacitors (470pF or the 100mF) ?


Thanks
Genis
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LukeDI



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 3:49 pm    Post subject: Re: almost working - filter don't Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

austrohungaro wrote:
Thank you mosc

I replaced CD40106 IC and it worked!

BUT... The filter pot doesn't work, I checked the pot, replaced it, replaced LM741 OpAmp, checked the wires, soldering... and it just doesn't affect the sound!

Any idea? Is it possible to test capacitors (470pF or the 100mF) ?


Thanks
Genis
Sounds like the problem I am having. I tried similar steps but haven't gotten any result yet. My electronics teacher thought it might be a component value issue, something about the 10M resistor I think.
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