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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » MusicFromOuterSpace.com designs by Ray Wilson
Whacky, Zany, Weird Stripboard Layout
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LektroiD



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 6:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I've just stumbled upon this... Brilliant little project!

There should be more stripboard projects like this, makes it so much easier than ordering PCBs etc...

I have one small question;

I have a heap of 2N3906 transistors, would these work in place of the 2N3904 transistors? Just thinking of saving pennies Wink
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fluxmonkey



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Brainstormer wrote:
I've just stumbled upon this... Brilliant little project!

There should be more stripboard projects like this, makes it so much easier than ordering PCBs etc...

I have one small question;

I have a heap of 2N3906 transistors, would these work in place of the 2N3904 transistors? Just thinking of saving pennies Wink


nope. cannot sub NPN for PNP.

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LektroiD



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 3:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I've been through a couple of pages but couldn't find the answers I was looking for, so excuse me if these 3 questions have been asked already:

1) Is it ok to use polypropylene capacitors for the 20n & 100n capacitors?
2) C4,5,24,25 are listed as 20nF, however these are proving impossible to source in the uk, could I use 22nF in their place, and what difference would this make?
3) The 7x 1MΩ and 2x 100KΩ pots, are these log or lin?
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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 4:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

1. Yes
2. Yes, not much
3. I think they're all linear, but check the schematic on Ray's site

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-minus-



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 9:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Testing... One, Two....

Hi All!

I stumbled on this forum almost by accident. Had next to no past electronic experience whatsoever. And guess what? I've just built my first WSG! And I love it! Only took a few days to assemble...

Ok, so Uncle Krunkus was extremely helpful in answering my emails! But even though I was a novice when it comes to soldering, and didn't know a diode from a resistor... it actually works! What a great project and forum!

Still yet to put it all into its case (when I can stop playing around with it). Originally I thought I'd make it look like a serious bit of gear, like a Boss pedal, that type of thing. But after hearing what that Oddness Filter does, I've changed my mind. This isn't a synth- it's a WEAPON! Ever seen Mars Attacks? WSG- it's top secret military hardware! Always wondered what Electronics 'Enthusiasts' got up to...

I'm hooked! Can't turn the bloody thing off it's so good! Might just leave it on 24/7 like a fridge.... So, if you're thinking of making anything- MAKE THIS! Just use Uncle's strip board method and you won't go wrong.

I've so much to talk about... but it's 3 AM... and I have a rumbling, throbbing, chirping WSG to attend to! Once again, thanks to all who posted here. Your photos, questions, answers etc were invaluable! And where would we be without Uncle Krunkus? Three cheers to the strip board Jedi!

THANKS!
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RF



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Congrats!
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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

-minus- wrote:
I've so much to talk about... but it's 3 AM... and I have a rumbling, throbbing, chirping WSG to attend to! Once again, thanks to all who posted here. Your photos, questions, answers etc were invaluable! And where would we be without Uncle Krunkus? Three cheers to the strip board Jedi!
THANKS!


Thanks for all the adoration -minus- ! Very Happy
Don't forget to heap some praise on Mr Wilson too, he did design the circuit after all!
You definitely seem like somebody who has just discovered a great hobby. It is a great hobby too! You can get heaps of satisfaction, confidence and fun from building your own musical (and sometimes un-musical) electronics projects. I for one am very hooked.
And,...... you're only up there at Lismore! Finally, someone on the forum who I might have a chance to sit around the fire, drinking beer and swapping SDIY stories with over a Kraftwerk track or five! Very Happy Maybe, we could even organise an Australian electro-music festival! Well,... maybe. We'd probably need more than 2 people showing up to make it worth while. I reckon I could fit about 6 or 7 around the fire! Wink Laughing

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-minus-



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yes, I just woke up and the first thing I thought of was my WSG! It's on right now! I have indeed emailed Ray to thank him for inventing the WSG (WMD?). What a great device!

We do need an electro festival here in Australia. There's the THIS IS NOT ART festival in Newcastle... could always play at that. Just missed this years one, but there's always next year. More than happy to drink beer around a campfire listening to Kraftwerk with you Uncle! I'll bring a few acoustic guitars to throw on the fire!
Twisted Evil
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-minus-



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Just a question I thought some WSG strip board maker may be able to answer. I'm still unsure if I have the pots wired up correctly. I've already switched all the wiring around!

Does/can anyone post a diagram or instructions about this. All of Uncle's pot connections are north or south on his strip board layout (except of course the middle wires of the 100K pots). If I were to look at the back of a pot, with the tags facing down, which connection goes where for each pot? Are they all consistent?

Does this make any sense? Sorry for being such a novice, but I would like the pots to be wired correctly. I have little idea about modulators, oscillators etc and don't know what the effect should be when each pot is turned clockwise for example. Uncle Krunkus explained this in an email, but I'm having doubts. Embarassed
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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 2:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I just checked the original schematic for this WSG and,
Looking at the back of the pot with legs facing down, they should all go to the middle leg and the left hand leg. In other words, as the pot is turned clockwise (from the front) the frequencies will go up, and the cutoff of the filter will go up. These connections can be reversed as we're using the pot as a variable resistor. In this configuration, fully clockwise is the least resistance. In simple RC oscillators like this smaller resistance means the cap charges and discharges quicker, therefore, higher frequency. The filter is a bit more complicated than that, but the same pot direction stands, as less resistance means we defeat the 470pF (lowpass) caps on the -ve feedback path by shunting some output back to the +ve input.
The only pot which uses all three legs is the "zaniness" amount. In this case more "amount" means getting the wiper (middle) away from ground. Wiper to ground would feed the wiper with 0V, ie; no zaniness. So we want the ground connection on the far right (from back, legs down) as this would be fully counterclockwise (from front). The ground connection on the stripboard layout is the bottom pin of the three on both sides (see the link from there to -ve?) So that connection goes to the far right leg, (from back, legs down)
Phew!....... (Pommy accent on) Know what I mean? (Pommy accent off)
Very Happy

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-minus-



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PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 4:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ha Ha!

Thanks for that Uncle Krunkus! Got the WSG in its case... just a moment ago. All pots wired on left and centre leg, except the 100K's of course. One of those is wired wrong: Voice A. Just about to fix that now. Otherwise it's working great!

If I have any further questions, I'll just turn up this amp from 1, to say 3, and you should be able to hear it at your place and troubleshoot for me Exclamation

Oh yeah... one more thing. Is there anyway of modifying the Zany(?) part so it pulses even slower? Be nice to slow it down even further. But hey, I'm being picky. Besides, that Oddness filter more than makes up for it! I reckon you could demolish buildings with that! Shocked
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Pehr



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PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 4:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

-minus- wrote:
Oh yeah... one more thing. Is there anyway of modifying the Zany(?) part so it pulses even slower? Be nice to slow it down even further. But hey, I'm being picky. Besides, that Oddness filter more than makes up for it! I reckon you could demolish buildings with that! Shocked


Sure! Just change C7 to a bigger cap. Cool
Or have a switch choose which cap is active.
Perhaps a 10µF could do the trick.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 4:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hey Steve,
If you're really into the WSG, you should check Scott Stites "looney" modifications for it. They basically make the filter cutoff change dynamically with one of the slower modulators. Here's the link -
http://mypeoplepc.com/members/scottnoanh/birthofasynth/id16.html
You'll need some type of Vactrol. But he includes heaps of resources for that, including some info on "rolling your own". Very Happy

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-minus-



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PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 5:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks! Plenty of hippies "rolling their own" up here"... but I don't think it's Vactrols. Very Happy
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-minus-



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PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hey thanks Pehr! Missed your posting somehow... Great idea! Idea Looks like there's room on the strip board to put the other cap in as well. I'll swap the original cap first and see what it does. If it goes well, I'll put both in and rig up a switch so I have a choice between the two. I think I can manage that.
Cheers!
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Chrometuna



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 8:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I just finished my second WSG, and it's working fine.

But for some reason, somehow, I'm not sure why, when I was putting the case and pots and switches together, I must have lost count and put in two extra pots, and a switch.

I didn't connect those to anything....once I got started wiring the PCB to the panel, I realized I had the extra pots and switch there.

So....now what can I do with them? Any simple mods I could do to utilize those pots and switch?

What about making the WSG stereo? Like Voice A and Voice B coming out left and right? Maybe a "mixer" of some sort? (Somehow my Voice A seems a little quieter then B)

Or some more freq tweek?

Or what else could I do with these extra pots?
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LektroiD



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PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 5:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Chrometuna wrote:
What about making the WSG stereo? Like Voice A and Voice B coming out left and right? Maybe a "mixer" of some sort? (Somehow my Voice A seems a little quieter then B)


I have a similar problem, when I engage the switches, I find oscillator A is waaayy too loud in comparison:
Osc.A standard = normal line level
Osc.B standatd = normal line level
Osc.A + switch engaged = Way too loud!
Osc.B + switch engaged = normal line level

I wonder if there's something I've wired up wrong? Maybe this could have something to do with the filter problem I have; it acts in a logarithmic manner, yet I'm using linear pots

http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-29666.html
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Chrometuna



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PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2008 7:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Pehr wrote:
-minus- wrote:
Oh yeah... one more thing. Is there anyway of modifying the Zany(?) part so it pulses even slower? Be nice to slow it down even further. But hey, I'm being picky. Besides, that Oddness filter more than makes up for it! I reckon you could demolish buildings with that! Shocked


Sure! Just change C7 to a bigger cap. Cool
Or have a switch choose which cap is active.
Perhaps a 10µF could do the trick.


I found a 6 position rotory switch and wired different caps to it. And that certainly gives me a new range of wigglynoises.

What other caps or things can I play with?

And I have these two extra pots and a switch. What else could I do with them?

I don't want to mess with vactrols yet.
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CLNicholson



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 7:59 pm    Post subject: 1m pots Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I hate to see that I'm late boarding the WSG train but i still hope to build one of my own, only 2 questions I'm kind of boggling myself with. First off is an easy question, I am unable to find ceramic caps in any of those sizes, is it ok to use monolithics instead, they seem to be the only ones I can find in those sizes. My next question is regarding pots, I am also unable to find 1M pots, am I able to replace those using 500K pots, and if i do, do i also have to change the 4k7 resistors to something lower say like a 2k2? If I am way off just let me know as I am a complete noob to all this. Thanks in advance!
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slacker



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 4:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It doesn't matter what sort of caps you use, any that are the correct value will be fine.
The frequency of the oscillators gets lower as the resistance between the in and out pins increases. So if you use 500k pots instead of 1M the lowest frequency will be roughly twice what it should be. The highest frequency will be the same because that is set by the 4k7 resistors so you can leave those as they are.
If you want the roughly the same range of frequencies but using 500k pots then you can double the value of the capacitors in the oscillators. These are C4, C5, C7, C12, C13 and C14. Then change the 4k7 resistors to 2k2.

Welcome to the forum Smile
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CLNicholson



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 8:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

thanks for the reply slacker that makes complete sense, an I'm glad my assumption was at least close! As i have thought i had no idea what i was doing... Still waiting to get out to the store to pick up the parts, its only open roughly the same hours i work so its a bit hard to work out the timing. Thanks again for the help!
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CLNicholson



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

actually now that i look at the layout/ list there doesnt seem to be a 12 13 or 14 any insight as to what ones they are?
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slacker



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sorry I was going from the schematic, I didn't realise the stripboard was labelled differently. The correct ones on the layout and parts list are C4, C5, C6, C24, C25 and C26.

Apologies for any confusion Smile
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CLNicholson



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

no worries at all thanks for he fast reply!
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CLNicholson



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

sorry to be such a bother but just one last question, i cant seem to find an exact double sized cap for those ratings. i need 40nF and 2uF but i did find 47nF and 2.2uF will those work just the same? thanks in advance!
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