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NGINX RTMP video streaming server on e-m
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mosc
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PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2020 3:54 pm    Post subject:  NGINX RTMP video streaming server on e-m Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

NGINX is among other things a video streaming server that uses the RTMP protocol to stream live and prerecorded video. For various reasons some people don't want to use Twitch, YouTube, Facebook or other commercial businesses to stream their video. Installing NGINX on electro-music.com is the first step to getting video streaming.

I'll skip the technical details on how to set this is set up. It's simple; only took me about 6 hours. Rolling Eyes

I only know how to stream with OBS and not all the well.

How to stream to the server using OBS:

In OBS goto File -> Settings -> Stream

Service: Custom...
Server: rtmp://electro-music.com/live
Stream Key: XXXXX
Uncheck use authentication for now.


Note: XXXXX is something you make up to identify your stream. Maybe your name or a group name, like Twyndyllyngs, or something. Just don't use Mystream as that is in every document I've seen about this. You want a name that is possibly unique. Don't include spaces or other special characters.

There are some important OBS settings that need to be adjusted. I've discovered these by trial-and-error. See this post below:

http://electro-music.com/forum/post-444782.html

How to view your stream once you have connected as usual via OBS:

At this point there a dozens of options. I'll only give the details for VLC which is commonly used, is free and runs on virtually all platforms. This should work for all media players but I've only tried VLC.

Launch VLC and go to Media -> Open Network Stream...
Enter in the network URL form

rtmp://electro-music.com/live/XXXXX

Here XXXXX is the same stream key (name) your entered with entered in OBS. That's why we need unique key's so we can support multiple streams.

That's it
Let me know here if there are problems or suggestions.


What next:

Once this proves effective, we need to have a web page to view the streams instead of requiring people to use a media player like VLC and all the others too numerous to mention. I'm working on it and will post something here when we have something.

There are stream reflectors that can send copies of the streams to various other steaming services so it may be possible to hit FB, YouTube, etc all at once, but I'm not going there yet until this is working.

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Last edited by mosc on Tue May 19, 2020 11:06 pm; edited 3 times in total
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 4:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Seems to basically work .. but now need to figure out how to make my audio work in OBS - it sees my audio device but not it's channels .. or something.

Edit: more people seem to have issues with audio in OBS on Mac ... for now, too much fuzz to get it going .. for a next try I'll just use windows I guess.

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also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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MusicMan11712



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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 5:09 am    Post subject: Re: Ninjam RTMP video streaming server on e-m Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mosc wrote:
I'll skip the technical details on how to set this is set up. It's simple; only took me about 6 hours. Rolling Eyes


Thank you for sharing the news and your insights. This could be a game changer; so, in the long run, the six hours for your proof-of-concept test might well pay off.

Thanks for all you do for electronic and experimental musicians.
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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 7:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

sounds promising cyclops
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shivasongster



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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 8:48 am    Post subject: VLC settings Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks for working on this Howard.

My first test did not appear to work. Nothing coming through to VLC, but the outgoing stream looked OK from here (no errors). Not a newbie, so thought this would be pretty easy.

Any other settings to check?

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mosc
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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 9:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Blue Hell wrote:
Seems to basically work .. but now need to figure out how to make my audio work in OBS - it sees my audio device but not it's channels .. or something.

Edit: more people seem to have issues with audio in OBS on Mac ... for now, too much fuzz to get it going .. for a next try I'll just use windows I guess.


I'm sure you can figure out OBS. It's seems to be a very well designed program. As for the Mac having audio issues, I haven't read that, in fact I've read the opposite. I have better luck with Windows in general.

This things are not consumer programs so they take a bit to fiddling.

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mosc
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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 9:39 am    Post subject: Re: VLC settings Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

shivasongster wrote:
Thanks for working on this Howard.

My first test did not appear to work. Nothing coming through to VLC, but the outgoing stream looked OK from here (no errors). Not a newbie, so thought this would be pretty easy.

Any other settings to check?


I don't know of any setting to check, but I'll be working on this so more today. I did a lot of reading last night. It seems that RTMP is not going to work on systems that don't allow Flash, like iOS. There are ways to stream using HLS which I'm going to try install today.

I'm going to be bring this up and down all day so better wait a while and I'll post something here when we should be ready to try it out again.

I can see your activity in the logs, but I have to figure out how to decipher it.

Thanks for trying it and giving feedback...

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shivasongster



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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Blue Hell wrote:
...OBS - it sees my audio device but not it's channels .. or something.

Edit: more people seem to have issues with audio in OBS on Mac ... for now, too much fuzz to get it going .. for a next try I'll just use windows I guess.


Please watch my video here:

https://youtu.be/mRJ9HY6WrSA

It should help.

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shivasongster



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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 9:55 am    Post subject: Re: VLC settings Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

OK, for reference, I was testing the receiving side on my HP Laptop with VLC 32 bit. No errors. Just nothing coming across.

I can't speak to RTMP and Flash, but I would have expected this would have worked because I do a lot of other stuff on that Win machine (though not as much as my Macbook).

Also, I tried my test with and without authentication. I would think eventually we're want things to be a bit more locked down.

I can test pretty quickly if you need me to. I don't always see the ticklers for EM, so FB or SMS is better.

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MusicMan11712



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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

FWIW, I ran a first test this morning (US time). Jan verified the video and audio and let me know where there were problems--mostly due to (1) a very old PC with limited resources and (2) my media player being too loud. (Thanks for tuning in and for the feedback, Jan.)

I have some experience with OBS, mostly self-teaching, recording test videos, etc. I had never streamed out video/audio before, The instructions mosc wrote up (1) for setting the OBS link to the server worked and (2) for setting up VLS to watch worked!! Smile TY, Howard!!!

I had a lot of scenes and sources in OBS from various tests, but it was less confusing for me to just create new sources. In fact, I hid all of my previous audio meters/faders and created a new one for today's test.

At first I tried to stream audio and video from a Cakewalk project. Some observations (in case they help others sort through issues):

The video worked. However, I minimized the window to have more space on my desktop and that caused the video to show a non-moving image. Un-minimizing it made the video move again. (I did not try minimizing my webcam, but I did get it to be a mirror image using the transform tool.)

The audio did not stream from Cakewalk. It could have been because (1) Cakewalk takes over from Windows and I did not have an ASIO channel sending the audio to Window's audio record bus, (2) I previously had the audio set up to use the mobo mic audio [from Zoom meetings] and needed to change settings, (3) my Cakewalk Project was at 48KHz, etc.** [see "UPDATE" below.]

Once I switched to playing a playlist of my music via winamp, the audio streamed out from OBS.

Jan reported some audio issues at times: (1) Digital distortion [clipping] when I had winamp's audio set too high. It was in the red on my PatchMix DSP ASIO Software. (2) Choppiness/audio artifacts when I was playing around with the visual elements in OBS--basically using too much CPU.

I mention these issues in case they help others problem-solve during their tests.

---------------------
**Update: Jeremy posted his helpful video after my test. I had just used my OBS settings from the past several years. Thanks to Jeremy's video, I plan to go back and revisit the audio settings as I might be able to fine tune them and Cakewalk to work properly with OBS. Thanks, Jeremy!!

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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
Please watch my video here:

https://youtu.be/mRJ9HY6WrSA

It should help.


Heh, not really .. I had already done all you showed .. except for the advanced mode where I could selecte a hardware video encoder .. but .. I just can not set up the routing the way I meed it to be in the audio device control panel .. the problem is with the audio interface and it's control software .. and OBS can not select the channels I need for input ... it can not select any channels at all.

Two things work here .. mic input .. but no external mic input present (so: useless) .. and using loopback software (iShowU) with a multi-output device setup .. but with that i can only stream mac internal sources and not from external audio inputs (so: useless).

I've tried to work with Jack - also not working. I used to have that rose-something software, but it seems gone, so did not try that.

Soo .. basically ... t.c. electronic ... it sucks as much as it costs.

So it's just not going to work for me on the Mac, not without getting me another audio interface.

BTW .. was not too impressed by the OBS sound quality on playing back some recordings and also when I moved windows around there would be dropouts even at low frame rates and few pixels .. prolly Mac too old .. 2013 I think ... or too lousy ... an i5 thingie.

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mosc
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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I hope you guys weren't messed up by my changing the config files on the server. I have gotten it to work now. I had to make a few changes on my OBS client to get it to work well.

In settings -> output

Encoder Software (x264)
Audio Bitrate 128

I was having problems with video hanging. I changed these setting and that helped a lot

settings -> video

Output (scaled) Resolution 1024x576
Integer FPS value: 15

I have a lowres logitech web cam. I suspect that monitoring your video at the same time you are streaming could cause network load problems and maybe a load of other problems.

I'll leave things alone for a while as it's working now as described. I'll try to figure out how to run another server for my changing things server-side so it won't mess most people up.

Thanks again.

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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mosc wrote:
I hope you guys weren't messed up by my changing the config files on the server.
Its just another opportunity to test it again. Smile
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mosc
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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 11:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I have a working Nginx RTMP server. I was having problems with VLC not being able to play my stream - just like Jeremy. After a lot of reading, someone said that you should use only what bandwidth you need, and have the network bandwidth to support.

By default OBS uses video bitrate of 10000 kbs. I cut that down to 5000 and have been getting connections with VLC. The setting for this is indicated in Settings -> Output.

The frame rate and screen resolution are also important. The best I seem to be able to do is max resolution of 1024X576. I assume these limits are caused by my internet uplink speed. Probably best to use something lower but what I don't know. I would be good to get opinions. I suggest starting at the smallest screen size and move up. See what your system can handle and back off.

I suggest frame rate 15 (electro-musicians are know for moving - this isn't sports)

OBS gives you the option of slow to fast encoder. You can select this in Settings -> Output -> Streaming. Check the box Enable Advanced Encoder Settings. I found the ultrafast setting to work best for me. YMMV

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shivasongster



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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2020 6:13 am    Post subject: Testing update Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Using the settings Howard recommended, I was able to get a successful test this morning.

Once we have a handle on final settings, this will need to be documented with screen shots. I had to hunt for the integer frame rate a bit, and I've been doing this longer than some.

I just used 2500 Kbps from my earlier setup and that seemed to work well.

I do wonder why we need to use the generic x264 and not why I could not use the apple Hardware encoding for x264. Also a bummer that we had to downgrade the audio rate.

But for now as proof of concept this is a big step. Let me know if you want to test some more after changes. As usual, hit me up on FB. I can't open any notifications from EM on my Android.

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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2020 7:09 am    Post subject: Audio Bit Rate Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ran successful tests with 160, 256 and 320 kbps.

Up to now I was running 160 for Twitch, FB and YT. I think there's room for experimenting here.


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shivasongster



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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2020 10:14 am    Post subject: Further testing Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Adam and I did some testing between 11:30 and 1pm today.

- Good news: I can successfully capture Adam's EM feed, pull it into OBS via VLC URL capture, and then add graphics and rebroadcast to wherever. In this case for proof of concept, we used Twitch. This is what we were hoping Ken (or other video artists) could do down the line. So we have a proof of concept (I have the video).

- Bad news: We were not able to do the reverse test where Adam captures my stream. I could monitor my stream locally (on another computer), though it was a bit choppy. So this may be some issue local to me, or during the time period we were testing. Not sure who else may have been on the server, or what changes may have been made.

Taking a break now. When we come back to it, we'll compare EM stream settings and go from there.

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mosc
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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2020 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Good news, Jeremy.

I think you are right about the audio rates. Compared to the video, the audio rates don't have too much of an impact. I picked 128 because that is what the e-m radio stations run at. It is "acceptable". We don't use a super-high rate because some people have low-bandwidth connections to their ISPs, some are listening in their cars, and some people want the opportunity to sell high-quality versions of their music.

Here is a good article about video streaming rates from a serious gamer.

https://blog.mobcrush.com/how-to-choose-the-right-bitrate-for-your-stream-9864ce322a9b

So, it would be good to get an acceptable "standard" suggestion for people to start streaming. Jeremy, can I leave that to you? You've got to do that anyway for the upcoming Cosmic Crossing streamfest concert in June. I'm going to focus my attention on getting HLS running and on getting a web page viewer.

I'm concerned that using OBS, Ninjam and VLC while streaming may tax many systems to the breaking point, but we'll have to see what happens. Watching your own streams while playing music may be a bad idea from a musical perspective anyway. People on the chat can let you know if you're stream looks good, or not.

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shivasongster



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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2020 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mosc wrote:

I'm concerned that using OBS, Ninjam and VLC while streaming may tax many systems to the breaking point, but we'll have to see what happens.


No one should even need to run VLC on their own machine while streaming. We were doing it for testing, but for real life I wouldn't recommended it - especially on the same machine.

Nothing I am testing involves Ninjam or JamKazam. I'm purely focused on:

- Solo broadcast
- Capturing a stream (whatever it is) to add graphics (to help Ken out for future events).

Those doing collabs with Ninjam/JamKazam will need to do their own extensive tests. I don't mind being a set of ears/eyes, but I'm already laser focused on getting things to work for the majority of broadcasters.

The other factor we had here was that my wife was on a Zoom webinar on one machine, and also on another machine logged into school. So my ability to broadcast may have been impacted by the bandwidth issues. Today was unusual though, and this testing kind of just happened organically (not planned).

But yes, I wanted to compare Adam's settings with mine and see if we can make suggestions from an EM perspective. It's always going to be a bit subjective though. Knowing the min requirements the server wants to see it is a starting point, and folks will still need to do their own testing to find their best settings, just as they would for any other platform. Using an EM video server is not going to get artists out of solo testing for any larger event we might try to pull off.

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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2020 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

This is cool Cool

I need to have a play with this at some point

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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2020 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Tom Bruce & I did some more testing in the past hour or so here, and had some more points of failure we want to investigate.

Howard -- do you have access to any logs from the RTMP server / nginx that you could potentially dump us? Might be helpful.

If we can make this work completely, it has some real potential in a number of different ways, thanks again for your work in putting this together...

Cheers,
Adam

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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2020 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

onewayness wrote:
Tom Bruce & I did some more testing in the past hour or so here, and had some more points of failure we want to investigate.

Howard -- do you have access to any logs from the RTMP server / nginx that you could potentially dump us? Might be helpful.


There are access and error logs. I see your are testing. I'm on the e-m chat. we can set up a private chat, or talk on the phone.

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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2020 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

shivasongster wrote:
Using an EM video server is not going to get artists out of solo testing for any larger event we might try to pull off.


True indeed.

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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2020 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sounds good, Howard — you gonna be in there later tonight?
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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2020 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

onewayness wrote:
Sounds good, Howard — you gonna be in there later tonight?


Yes, I'll be here.

I'm embarassed. There was an extra { in the config file, or at least in the wrong place. The config checker in Nginx didn't complain so I assumed all was working.
Then I spotted it. Also the Nginx keep-alive timer was set to 65 msec by default. I noticed a lot of timeouts in the logs so I increased that to 65000. Now timeouts are not showing up.

Anyhow I tested and got good video and audio reports from Jan and Phobos in the Netherlands. Onewayness also check it out as will,

Thanks guys.

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