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 Forum index » Clavia Nord Modular » Nord Modular G2 Discussion
mono and poly variations
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King Rat



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 2:23 pm    Post subject: mono and poly variations Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I have a patch that sounds better in mono on one variation (i.e. lead synth line with glide) and poly in another variation. Is there a way of patching so that one is effectively mono and one poly? The global params for voices affect all variations.
Cheers,
Angus
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3phase



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 4:52 pm    Post subject: Re: mono and poly variations Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

King Rat wrote:
I have a patch that sounds better in mono on one variation (i.e. lead synth line with glide) and poly in another variation. Is there a way of patching so that one is effectively mono and one poly? The global params for voices affect all variations.
Cheers,
Angus



You can modifie the patches with the mono input module...and poly input module and switchtes between them. You have to patch all KB buttons manually than. With this you can force a patch to play monophonic even when beeing in poly mode...you might patch the glide with modules aswell...
Usually its best to just use another patch...
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mosc
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 7:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

3phase,

When you say "poly input module", are you referring to the "Keyboard"module?

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3phase



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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

yes
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dasz



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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm at work so I can't try this (and g2 demo is monphonic)

1. make your patch poly.

2. Use the status module's voice count output. connect this to a level compc (compare to constant where voicecount >= 2)> add a gate inverter to the ouput of compare contant module (since you want to mute the voice if it is > 1). Now this variation is monophonic.

3. copy this to the 2nd variation. but this time set the compare to constant voice count >= 32, this will make the patch poluphonic.

Let me know if this works.
/Dasz

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dasz



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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

doh! I forgot to mention, that the inverter gate output should be connected to patch volume or an amp which will enable or disable gate signals from making it into the patch.

If you are confused, I'll have to patch it at home. I'd prefer if someone tried it.

/Dasz

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jksuperstar



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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

KingRat- The reason that parameter (mono-poly) is global, is because the G2 "compiles" the design & fits it into available DSP resources. A mono patch obviously only needs 1 voice, while a poly patch could need up to 32 voices, or 32x the resources.

However, I agree with your idea of some sounding better as mono than poly. Both 3phase & Dasz's ideas will reduce your patch to 1 voice, but I don't think they won't have that "monophonic" feel, where notes get held in a "stack", so that you can hold 1 note while bouncing on other notes ala Van Halen on guitar. That would need a much more complex scheme of storing the notes pressed in a "First-In-Last-Out" or stack approach.

Unfortunatly, I am at work also, and unable to patch together a building block for this.

Maybe you'd be better switching between slots, not variations, for this effect? (save a copy of the poly patch to a monophonic patch, load them both, then save the two as a performance).
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dasz



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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The Status module idea won't work. I was just trying it.

It does something completely different - it seems to output the voice # and not voice count. Like the old Korg Monopoly, Voice 1,2,3,4. Not-3 gates held.

We need a voice count output from the status module.

I am currently trying other methods but its not easy, especially cuz it's like this <http://www.katkam.ca/> outside (scroll down until you see the pic) -- well, and because there is no voice count output.

/Dasz

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Kassen
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

You use the voice number and compare it to 1, if it's larger you make the voice mute. You also use a "last note" output (which will now only work in voice #1); that's your cv.

You make the keyboard gates of all voices write to a buss which you read from voice one (actually you read from that in all voice but it doesn't matter for the others since those are mute); that's your gate, Now we only need to break the gate signal for new notes to reset envelopes. For this we invert a controll rate logic inverter on itself and clock a one step clocked delay with it. We delay the "last note" output by this and compare the result with the lastnote itself; if they are not identical a new note has been pressed in some voice one clock pulse ago and so we briefly break our gate signal.

That should do it. For poly versions you bypass the whole thing.

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Kassen
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

dasz wrote:

We need a voice count output from the status module.


You can make each voice write a constant "1" to a bus, then you can read that bus and there's your voicecount.

What you guys need is a proper implementation for polyphony.

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dasz



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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yeah, no dobut. Proper poly implementation.

/Dasz

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Kassen
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

dasz wrote:
Yeah, no dobut. Proper poly implementation.

/Dasz


Yes, I'm strongly in favour of looking at polyphony as classes within one clear definable system instead of as paralel instances of the same thing that can't comunicate amongst eachother. This would open the way for granular techniques, poplyphonic pitchbend, polyphonic portamento and more exotic techniques since each voice could inherit some aspects of some tothers instead of just from MIDI. It would also open the way for multiple overlapping instances of the same key as used in various guitar techniques.

I think it makes sense to have a modular aproach to voices within a modular synth instead if a prewirered one like in prewired synths.

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3phase



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 6:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I had quite a few problems with the G2´s voice allocation...
Its using a round robbin algorythm and therfore you never know which voice is next. Therfore the status out dont helps in the given situation..
But there are laso other situations in a poly patch where pressing a new key steals the voice from an allready held key...
I would wish another or at leats one alternative voice allocation mode...
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BobTheDog



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Kassen wrote:

What you guys need is a proper implementation for polyphony.


As a new G2 user I must admit that I find it a bit strange that the only way of getting a polyphonic signal down a wire is from the keyboard or midi, or am I wrong?

Cheers

Andy
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Kassen
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

3phase wrote:
I had quite a few problems with the G2´s voice allocation...
Its using a round robbin algorythm and therfore you never know which voice is next. Therfore the status out dont helps in the given situation..
But there are laso other situations in a poly patch where pressing a new key steals the voice from an allready held key...
I would wish another or at leats one alternative voice allocation mode...


Yes, I agree. The status module's voice number is generally not very musically meaningfull (even if it can come quite handy!). Voice stealing is unavoidable but perhaps you'd like to know and affect what note gets "stolen from" and now you can't.

Voice alloctation happens at a level above the patch and out of your controll so it's impossible to -for example- always steal from the voice that at that point is outputting at the lowest volume or some such scheme.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

BobTheDog wrote:
Kassen wrote:

What you guys need is a proper implementation for polyphony.


As a new G2 user I must admit that I find it a bit strange that the only way of getting a polyphonic signal down a wire is from the keyboard or midi, or am I wrong?


Yes, quite right. Therefore the G2's voices share some limitations with MIDI. For example no two notes can start at the exact some time (MIDI being serial) and the one thing that uniquely identifies a note is it's note number; you can never have more then one A4 sounding for example.

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