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Rotterdam bans poor artists
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elektro80
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2003 6:45 am    Post subject: Rotterdam bans poor artists Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Rotterdam plans to ban poor artists from moving in

Igor Kempinski
Tuesday December 2, 2003
WHY Rotterdam http://www.why-rotterdam.tk

The city of Rotterdam said yesterday that it wanted to ban poor and
unemployed artists from moving there.

In a move that is likely to cause uproar, the city council adopted a policy
paper which it said sought to restore "long-term balance" to the city.

Almost half the port city's 600,000 population are creative and the council
said it was keen to curb new immigration "of the wrong sort".

Its policy paper stipulated that any newcoming artists must earn 20% more
than the country's minimum wage or about € 9.10 (£6.30) an hour in order to
settle there.

New artists would also have to possess a good command of the Dutch language
in order to obtain a residence permit and the council said it would ask the
RKS to stop funding artists for the next four years.

"We have a lot of artists coming into the city who just go on welfare,"
Ronald Sorensen, leader of Leefbaar Rotterdam (Liveable Rotterdam), the
party behind the initiative, told WHY.

"If people want to come to Rotterdam they must not be artists. If they are,
then we don't want them."

Mr Sorensen said that the council would demolish cultural freezones and only
build "expensive houses" in order to get the right "balance".

"We want artists to work and we want artists to learn Dutch. We want
Rotterdam to look like any other Dutch city but at the moment we have more
unemployed artists and crime than anywhere else."

Deportations of illegal artists will be stepped up and the council said it
intends to start evicting anti-social artists from social housing.

Mr Sorensen argued that urgent action was needed to stop Dutch middle class
families fleeing the city for better areas.

Mr Sorensen denied the initiative was discrimination. But he admitted the
policy would have been approved by one of the city's most famous sons, the
far right anti-artist champion, Pim Fortuyn, who was assassinated last year

"He would be very proud of this," Mr Sorensen said. "This problem has been
around for 30 years but nobody has dared burn their fingers on it. This is
exactly what Mr Fortuyn stood for."

He added: "Colour is no problem but the problem is coloured. We are not
bigots. Nobody dares say that any more after Pim was shot."

He claimed that the new rules would also apply to Dutch white artists who
wanted to move to the city, the Netherlands' second largest.

The initiative is being pushed by councillor Marco Pastors, one of Fortuyn's
students and a close friend of the man who was gunned down by an artists'
rights activist in 2002.

Fortuyn outraged many by calling artists "backward" and demanding zero
immigration.

The subject of art remains sensitive in the Netherlands. The construction of
one of Europe's largest galleries began in Rotterdam in October and the
council is fighting to make its design less "artistic".

Recent surveys suggest that the population supports tough action on artists
with 60% of Rotterdam inhabitants in favour of restricting the number of new
artists.

The city council's plans are likely to enrage the Dutch left, however, and
the centre-right government has already indicated that limiting the number
of artists who can settle in one area may constitute discrimination and be
in breach of the constitution and various international treaties.

The council is therefore likely to become locked in a battle in order to
realise its plan, but insists it will persist.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,1097757,00.html

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2003 6:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

And I thought things were bad here...
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elektro80
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2003 7:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well.. trust old Europe. I guess Carlo can tell you some Berlusconi jokes from Italy.. or not.. he wil probably be taken away by men in black helicopters..
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2003 7:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

egw wrote:
And I thought things were bad here...


That's the amazing thing. This is as good as it gets!

People are trying to move here. Its their first choice.

These comments by the Rotterdam city councilmen sound familiar.

Quote:
"If people want to come to Rotterdam they must not be artists. If they are,
then we don't want them."
Mr Sorensen denied the initiative was discrimination.
"Colour is no problem but the problem is coloured. We are not
bigots.
Recent surveys suggest that the population supports tough action on artists
with 60% of Rotterdam inhabitants in favour of restricting the number of new
artists.


Change Artist to Jew and Rotterdam to Munich and what do you get?

Quote:
one of the city's most famous sons, the
far right anti-artist champion, Pim Fortuyn, who was assassinated last year


Maybe not exactly...
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Cyxeris



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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2003 7:31 am    Post subject: Re: Rotterdam bans poor artists Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

elektro80 wrote:
Deportations of illegal artists will be stepped up and the council said it intends to start evicting anti-social artists from social housing.

The construction of one of Europe's largest galleries began in Rotterdam in October and the council is fighting to make its design less "artistic".


My favorite parts. It's sad that some of the greatest atrocities begin by "having a point." That's why people so readily swallow the poison, part and parcel.

Cyx

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elektro80
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2003 7:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Very true. Europe is being triple penetrated by a new sick sick rightwing and quasi socialdemocratic ideology these days. Sooner or later this will cost lives and turn nasty. The "Fûr Elise" incident is another example of how bad this getting... and fast.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2003 7:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Is it like that everywhere there? One of our rap guys, Eminem, is being investigated by the Secret Service (SS) for a lyric where he says he wishes the president were dead. Aside from that, things are ok here in that respect, I suppose.

They're too busy hunting down pot smokers to nightstick.


That's nightstick as a verb, by the way.

Cyx

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2003 7:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Nah... not all over.. central Europe is worst off.. by far. Norway is still pretty left wing.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2003 8:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

elektro80 wrote:
Well.. trust old Europe. I guess Carlo can tell you some Berlusconi jokes from Italy.. or not.. he wil probably be taken away by men in black helicopters..

well...for example they are going to pass a law that says there is no difference between heroin and pot and no difference between drug dealers and users and all have to be prosecuted exactly in the same way.
isn't a smart move Question

oh oh I see a black helicopter approaching....... Shocked

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2003 8:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

We don't really have left and right wing here in the States. We think we do, but we don't. It's more like an ongoing football game than a civilization. We have corporate-wing, and that's what it pretty much boils down to over here. Politically, it's really all about the same. The contrasts are quite minor.

Cyx

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2003 8:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I do think the same: it's not a matter of right or left wing.
there's a corporate-wing painted with different shades of colors, not much else.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2003 8:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

seraph wrote:
they are going to pass a law that says there is no difference between heroin and pot and no difference between drug dealers and users and all have to be prosecuted exactly in the same way.
isn't a smart move Question


This is a common tactic. If they do that, pass irrational laws that make large numbers of the population immediately criminals, then people will not respect the law. There will be disobedience, some civil, some violent. When there is violent disobedience, then they will crack down in the name to law and order. They gain control. This has been going on for thousands of years.

I didn't know that radical artists assassinated a public official. The game is certainly afoot. Whether the assassin was really an artist or a right-wing agent is really irrelevant. After they get control over the artists or pot smokers, then the general population is a piece of cake. There must always be a hated and despised cultural minority. In western Europe, the Jews are gone, now it's pot smoking artists. Pot smoking artists are a bad target because it's really their own kids, it's best to use outsiders. Note how the Rotterdam leaders use the term immigrants. I bet the Muslims are next.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2003 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

In Europe we now see many of the old flavours of 19th century politics show up again. Carlo can probably tell in detail about Italy 1800-1920. Very interesting. It might be correct to call this corporate politics.. but then not.. It is a mix a regional/corporate/national/religious interests. And then throw in some state of the art megalomaniacs and big egos. The former lounge artist Berlusconi will probably become the first modern day italian emperor.

It is quite interesting that Rotterdam does not say: HEY! We have a lot of artists here! Poor.. but.. anyway.. We can swing this.. the fact that we have all these artists must mean something..??? Like.. ok.. we have a resource?? " But... no... If this had been the US I guess Disney would have made some rides showing off how cool poor artists an interpret the "Pirates Of the Caribbean"... or something..

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2003 8:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

They will definitively do the muslims soon. Which is sooo predictable and very sad. In fact, when they get rid of artists they can pretty much do whatever they like. Art is the last defence of decency.
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Last edited by elektro80 on Sun Dec 07, 2003 8:52 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2003 8:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

elektro80 wrote:
It is quite interesting that Rotterdam does not say: HEY! We have a lot of artists here! ... If this had been the US I guess Disney would have made some rides


Yes, I'd think they would learn from their countrymen in Amsterdam. They turned the red light district into a tourist attraction. I've visited there and I saw many European tourists walking through the streets with their children. What better for Rotterdam than to be the 21 Century Artist Capital of the World. People would come from all over to buy for pennies what might be an early work of the next Picasso.

I guess that doesn't sound as good as being a safe boring city with rich people that speak Dutch, with sufficient but strictly regulated foreign chefs, and, of course, some of the finest art museums in Europe, preferably dead Dutch artist museums.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2003 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

elektro80 wrote:
They will definitively do the muslims soon. Which is sooo predictable and very sad. In fact, when they get rid of artists they can pretty much do whatever they like. Art is the last defence of decency.


I smell an escelating resurgance of anti-semitism brewing again. THAT is so predictable that it's just boring at this point. Historically, people seem to wait juuuuust long enough after the last barbaric horror enacted upon the Jews to possibly get away with going after them again, and people scream about Israel's defense policies? They're simple, actually... they've learned. They learned what they're dealing with and have been for a very long time, and they're not taking it anymore. The Muslims are like the little kid on the street who could never really defend himself against the local bullies, and has recently found is father's pistol.

elektro80 wrote:
It is a mix a regional/corporate/national/religious interests. And then throw in some state of the art megalomaniacs and big egos.


The religion aspect tends to be more for advertizing and marketing than motivation. When you hear the president say he prays about something, do you roll your eyes and think "puuuuuuuhlease" as I do? I seriously doubt that it is religion that is driving the other side of the fence either, but similiar motivators to ours, using religion as a human shield and battle cry.

The disgusting thing is the number of people who fall for it, buy it, swallow it hook, line, and sinker. Now, pot smoking artists, that's another story...!

Cyx

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2003 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Personally, I am a little unwilling to mix up the state of Israel and what is going on down there with anti semitism in Europe and Russia.

When it comes to religion... which means christianity here in Europe.. is judged as the last defense against the ultimate barbary.. which can be whatever.. sex, muslims and whales... you name it..

Religion is also about property and power .. and over here the catholic church is big in both departments. But.. please check out Anthony Beevor´s book on the Spanish Civil War. You will get the drift.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2003 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I cite Israel because they are becoming an excuse for anti-semitism. With human beings, it's ok to hate someone as long as you have a "good reason." Isn't that how it seems to work?
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2003 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I see what you mean. Well, I am not sure where to start.. Yes, well.. you might be right.. in the same way that various US foreign policy stunts causes hostility against the US. On the other hand.. the way anti semitism really worked here in Europe, you cannot compare that with hostility against the state of Israel. I am not sure I want to start a discussion of the current problems in the middle east in this thread. The whole thing is a sad mess.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2003 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yes, it is, and convoluted beyond all comprehension.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2003 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Let's Call The Whole Thing Off

by Ira Gershwin


Things have come to a pretty pass,
Our romance is growing flat,
For you like this and the other
While I go for this and that.

Goodness knows what the end will be;
Oh, I don't know where I'm at...
It looks as if we two will never be one,
Something must be done.

You say either and I say eyether,
You say neither and I say nyther;
Either, eyether, neether, nyther,
Let's call the whole thing off!

You like potato and I like potaeto,
You like tomato and I like tomaeto;
Potato, potaeto, tomato, tomaeto!
Let's call the whole thing off!

But oh! If we call the whole thing off,
Then we must part.
And oh! If we ever part,
Then that might break my heart!

So, if you like pajamas and I like pajahmas,
I'll wear pajamas and give up pajahmas.
For we know we need each other,
So we better call the calling off off.
Let's call the whole thing off!

You say laughter and I say lawfter,
You say after and I say awfter;
Laughter, lawfter, after, awfter,
Let's call the whole thing off!

You like vanilla and I like vanella,
You, say parilla and I say parella;
Vanilla, vanella, Chocolate, strawberry!

So, if you go for oysters and I go for orsters
I'll order oysters and cancel the orsters.
For we know we need each other,
So we better call the calling off off!

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2003 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hmm.. was this song in "Springtime for Hitler" too?
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2003 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Winter for Poland and France...
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2003 2:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

elektro80 wrote:
Hmm.. was this song in "Springtime for Hitler" too?

How dare you mix Gershovitz and Adolf Question

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2003 2:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

You ever seen that old mel Brooks movie.. ??? Very Happy

Not that the music is the same.. but it has the same positive flair to it Very Happy

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