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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » MusicFromOuterSpace.com designs by Ray Wilson
Panel designs
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Etaoin



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 5:26 am    Post subject: Panel designs Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I guess this must have been asked before, but I just cannot find it...

How was the Soundlab panel (and for that matter, the VCO, sequencer, and other MFOS panels) designed? I'd like to do other panels in similar fashion, but it seems a pain in the proverbial to draw all those pot scales by hand in something like Illustrator and just hope they are the right size...
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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 6:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Send an e-mail to Ray and ask him directly.
I think he's adhdboy on the forum if you want to send him a PM.

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v-un-v
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

wasn't it done in 'schematic publisher'? Ray's own free software?
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

v-un-v wrote:
wasn't it done in 'schematic publisher'? Ray's own free software?


Nah, isn't that just for schematics? Rolling Eyes
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

nope- think about it. drawing circuit diagrams is exactly the same as making designs for front panels
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Etaoin



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 12:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Biggest difference is that drawing schematics doesn't require absolute dimensions to be exact, while drawing panels does. And as far as I can tell, there's no way to determine size in Schematic Publisher.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 1:29 am    Post subject: Re: Panel designs Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Etaoin wrote:
a pain in the proverbial to draw all those pot scales by hand in something like Illustrator and just hope they are the right size...


Illustrator is perfect. You create one object, then copy it. There is nothing difficult about it at all.

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Etaoin



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 2:11 am    Post subject: Re: Panel designs Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:

Illustrator is perfect. You create one object, then copy it. There is nothing difficult about it at all.


Except for the price. Illustrator costs $499. Which I find slightly over budget for drawing a few panels.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 2:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

true. But aren´t there similar shareware/freeware apps that can do the same? At least for the mac there are some very inexpensive cad/drawing apps. Even CorelDraw should do the job just fine.
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Etaoin



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 2:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'll see if I can get something out of oodraw, which I do have. The reason I was looking for a dedicated application was that it would save me figuring out how big everything needs to be. But you're right, I really only need to do that once for every object I want to use in the panel.
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elektro80
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 2:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I don´t know oodraw, but as for Illustrator and others like it, it is often a good idea to keep master objects around. You know, in case you need to go back and reuse the original object. the same goes for type objects ( text ). Sometimes you wil have to make objects out of vector text ( postscript or truetype ) in case you will use a Roland Cammjet foil cutter or something of the sort. In case you will be engraving text on a front panel, you should find out how the controller reads various types of vector objects.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 2:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

There is also FrontDesigner 3.0, but it isn't cheap... Confused
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

expensive?
Quote:
Approx GBP 36.00 including VAT and Delivery in the UK


No, I don´t think so. This seems quite reasonable to me.

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Etaoin



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Indeed. That's the sort of app I was looking for and the sort of price I'd pay.
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Pehr



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 5:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well... it's less than $499 Rolling Eyes
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gubbeper



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 6:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Personally I’m using Illustrator for panel design but then again I have a license through work.
I have been looking to some extent at a program called Inkscape that looks really promising and that is open source. I could really recommend looking in to that if you want a free powerful vector program.

http://www.inkscape.org/

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Also from the Free & Open Source world, there is

GIMP (can be compared to Photoshop) - good if you download a pciture of the soundlab's panel and work from there.

DIA (compared to Visio) - good block diagram type tool. Might not seem like a match at first, but if you cut/paste 1 knob from another soundlab's panel in as a block, you can lay it out very easily from there using this tool.

Ikscape looks good, though.
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zynthetix



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

While GIMP is an excellent program and IMHO an equally capable, sometimes better alternative to photoshop, I have not found anything that does vector graphics as easily, efficiently, and flexibly as Illustrator.

There is the unfortunate price tag, however. I spent some time over the summer digging for open source alternatives. jksuperstar mentioned the two of the best vector graphics programs available in open source right now:

http://www.gnome.org/projects/dia/
Dia seems to be tailored for circuit schemetic or blueprint design. It is a good and useful tool, but when I tested it out, it did not meet my needs for artwork and graphic design.

http://www.inkscape.org/
Inkscape seemed pretty intuitive from a photoshop background. It struck me as a lot better for the graphic design end, and this might help a lot for working on a sound lab panel.

I have faith these open source projects will catch up to the functionality and usability of Illustrator in time, but for now they are developed enough that they are certainly worth checking out before spending $500 on Illustrator.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jksuperstar wrote:

Ikscape looks good, though.


It does- especially if you are a PC user (hopefully I'll have a PC soon too). For my Mac, i've been using Intaglio which is piss-easy to use, but is an Illustrator-like vector program which weighs in at around 90 USdollars too (sorry my dollar sign key has died on this keyboard Sad )- I did that signal-flow diagram with it on Ray's site.

My pot decals were done by copying the original SL front panel from Ray's site- and importing them (after cropping in photoshop) into Intaglio and simply copying them by sketching over the top of them. This is a lot of fun with OSX's scalable Quartz graphics Very Happy

http://www.purgatorydesign.com/Intaglio/

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks for the links to Inkscape and Gimp.

Inkscape nicely fills a gap I've been having for a long time in my tooling for drawing, looks good, when I could easily work on an exact grid it might be perfect.

The Gimp looks a lot more interesting than last time I looked at it (over 5 years ago I guess), and I might even start to use it .. the user interface needs some time to get used to I'm affraid.

Which reminds me but OT a bit, JK, a while ago you mentioned foobar as a good audio player, I'm staritng to like that one more and more - a bit late, but thanks for pointing me at that one.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Blue Hell wrote:
Thanks for the links to Inkscape and Gimp.
Which reminds me but OT a bit, JK, a while ago you mentioned foobar as a good audio player, I'm staritng to like that one more and more - a bit late, but thanks for pointing me at that one.


That's what we're here for Smile It's interface takes some getting used to as well, as I'm sure you've realized.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jksuperstar wrote:
It's interface takes some getting used to as well, as I'm sure you've realized.
Thats why this took me a while Wink
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Etaoin wrote:
Biggest difference is that drawing schematics doesn't require absolute dimensions to be exact, while drawing panels does.


Try telling that to an IC/ IC socket!!!

You don't need to know the dimentions necessarily. All the knob decals are at a fixed size that already works with an average sized knob. Isn't there a 'Print Set-up' option in the file pull down menu? (It might be a different name on Windows?). Set that to A4, vertical or horizontal format and away you go!! Smile

It's just about visualizing the image in your head beforehand Cool

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Etaoin



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
Try telling that to an IC/ IC socket!!!


That's PCB design, not schematics. Indeed, that needs to be even more exact than panel design. What I said was that in drawing schematics size is not important. You can blow up an opamp ten times and it's still an opamp.
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v-un-v
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

oops! Embarassed -with you now- sorry about that.

I suppose you are right there (about precision panel design)- but it's funny, I go weak at the knees worrying about 1/10's of a inch between IC pins- but I was very laid back about my front panel design- although my knob decals are still a tad too small Sad

We'll get there.

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