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Mohoyoho
Joined: Dec 03, 2003 Posts: 1632 Location: Tennessee
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Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 6:16 am Post subject:
Ring Modulator--Tell Us When You Use It. |
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The ring modulator is certainly an interesting module. I have the Moogerfooger Ring Mod pedal as well as having RM circuits on some of my VA synths. I love the way the Moog pedal can create tremelo on the low settings. On the faster settings it really starts to come up with that "ringing" sound. And ofcourse that pedal has its own LFO and some great CV in and outs which make it an indepensible tool. However, the VAs (Q, Ion, Microwave) ring mods don't seem as musical, and I find it hard to come up with a use for them.
So I thought I would start this thread to find out how and when people in this community use ther RMs. I'm hoping to become inspired to experiment more with those digital Ring Mods. _________________ Mark Mahoney
Kingsport, Tennessee
http://www.reverbnation.com/markmahoney
www.cdbaby.com/cd/markmahoney
www.cdbaby.com/cd/mmahoneympeck
http://cdbaby.com/cd/mmahoneympeck2
http://www.limitedwave.com/subterraneous/ |
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mosc
Site Admin
Joined: Jan 31, 2003 Posts: 18195 Location: Durham, NC
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Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 7:27 am Post subject:
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I use them mostly for processing live instruments. Typically use a sine wave on an oscillator that sweeps from subaudio to like 10 KHZ. When used with a sine wave the RM will generate two copies of the input, one shifted up by the frequency of the oscillator and one shifted down. These are the classic sum and difference tone or the heterodynes. When you use other waveforums, the results are more complex, but the math is the same - just you get the sum and difference for every harmonic in the oscillator.
The RM works great for guitars because it can give you great gongs. It's good to use in conjunction with a low-pass filter sometimes.
Lately, we have been using the RM with a Theremin. This is a wonderful combination. That's kinda neat because the Theremin is really built with two ring modulators. The tone you hear in a Theremin is actually the difference frequency between two very high frequency oscillators.
Here's some music made with the RM on guitar and Theremin.
http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-8038.html _________________ --Howard
my music and other stuff |
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Mohoyoho
Joined: Dec 03, 2003 Posts: 1632 Location: Tennessee
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Tim Kleinert
Joined: Mar 12, 2004 Posts: 1148 Location: Zürich, Switzerland
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Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2005 2:44 am Post subject:
Re: Ring Modulator--Tell Us When You Use It. |
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Mohoyoho wrote: | <snip>
However, the VAs (Q, Ion, Microwave) ring mods don't seem as musical, and I find it hard to come up with a use for them.
<snip>
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I know what you mean. I was always dissatisfied with digital ringmodulation and always presumed that digital impurities (aliasing) were the cause. Through experimentation and listening sessions with analogue RM, I discovered however that the opposite is the case: the problem with digital RM is that it is too pure. It doesn't produce as many harmonic sidebands.
If you implement subtle modulator CV bleedthrough and odd harmonic distortion on a digital RM, it instantly jumps to life. I use the Clavia G2, where stuff like this is simple to do, but you can do this on almost any VA. |
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thapoke
Joined: Oct 07, 2005 Posts: 42 Location: Glasgow, UK
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Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 5:15 pm Post subject:
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Ive set up a patch on my micro modular (which Ive mainly used on my bass guitar) which has an osc tracking the pitch of the input signal and the osc and input going into the ring mod.
This is realy useful for making the ring mod sounds less dissonant and more controlable for in tune sounds (if thats what Im looking for at the time- I quite like the horrible sounds of it as well). And at low frequencies it makes a great tremolo that varies speed depending on the pitch of the input.
Sounds pretty good on vocals as well , depending on your accent (Glasgow accent doesnt work) kind of like sounds on Coil records. |
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Mohoyoho
Joined: Dec 03, 2003 Posts: 1632 Location: Tennessee
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blue hell
Site Admin
Joined: Apr 03, 2004 Posts: 24075 Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 277
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Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 6:28 pm Post subject:
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thapoke wrote: | Ive set up a patch on my micro modular |
You could post the patch, if you want to, maybe somewhere in the NM1 section and then add a link to it from this thread.
Rob Hordijk made an interesting G2 example (along tim's lines) |
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Scott Stites
Janitor
Joined: Dec 23, 2005 Posts: 4127 Location: Mount Hope, KS USA
Audio files: 96
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Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 7:39 pm Post subject:
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One thing I like using a ring modulator for is processing CV's.
Obviously, the RM must be DC coupled. It works rather like an automated 'attenuvertor' or bipolar attenuator. For example running a sawtooth LFO into the carrier and running a much slower sine LFO into the modulator will result in an inverted sawtooth at the output when the sine LFO is at its most negative voltage. As the sine approaches zero volts, the amplitude of the inverted sawtooth grows less. At the zero crossing of the sine wave LFO, the output is 0. Once the sine wave LFO starts moving positive from zero volts, the sawtooth amplitude again starts to rise on the output - only now it's not inverted.
It's a neat effect when driving a filter or VCO from the RM output. Of course, LFO's aren't the only CV source that can be processed
Cheers,
Scott |
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Mohoyoho
Joined: Dec 03, 2003 Posts: 1632 Location: Tennessee
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Mohoyoho
Joined: Dec 03, 2003 Posts: 1632 Location: Tennessee
Audio files: 8
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Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 9:43 pm Post subject:
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I've been getting into my Moog MF 104 Ring Modulator quite a bit recently. I've been using it quite a bit with my Voyager and using the Filter EG's CV to modulate the frequency. I love the way the EG modulates; it's much more interesting than a LFO. You can insert the FX before the filters. It's quite a powerful sound tool. Much better and responsive than the digital ones on my Ion and Waldorf Q.
I've enjoyed and appreciate the above responses. Keep them coming in. |
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ndkent
Joined: Jan 03, 2006 Posts: 66 Location: new york
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Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 1:57 pm Post subject:
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As for things to do, controlling the pitch of 2 oscs, one with the x and one with the y axis of a joystick and feeding them into a ringmod makes some dramatic sounds.
I've done this with 2 theremin controllers producing a CV output for similar results, though in that case you'd need some way of adjusting amplitude (like a footpedal) or maybe control the amplitude with Theremin CV and a VCA and use a manual VCO for the osc not controlled by the Theremin.
I don't know the exact tech info but I'm pretty sure you could argue that while a theremin uses a similar principle it's not exactly or just a ring modulation process.
nicholas d. kent
http://technopop.info/ndkent/ |
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mosc
Site Admin
Joined: Jan 31, 2003 Posts: 18195 Location: Durham, NC
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Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 1:08 pm Post subject:
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ndkent wrote: | I don't know the exact tech info but I'm pretty sure you could argue that while a theremin uses a similar principle it's not exactly or just a ring modulation process. |
Quite right, I was just being a wise guy nerd when I mentioned that. Virtually every radio receiver uses balanced modulator circuits for signal detection too, but we don't call them ring modulators.
Scott mentioned a few of the neat things you can do with DC coupled ring modulators. We should note that the cheap ring modulators made out of a couple of transformers and a diode ring (hence the name ring modular) are unfortunately not DC coupled. _________________ --Howard
my music and other stuff |
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Mohoyoho
Joined: Dec 03, 2003 Posts: 1632 Location: Tennessee
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deknow
Joined: Sep 15, 2004 Posts: 1307 Location: Leominster, MA (USA)
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Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 8:27 pm Post subject:
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...if i had to guess, i would say that is the most common misconception in electronic music
deknow |
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ian-s
Joined: Apr 01, 2004 Posts: 2669 Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 8:31 pm Post subject:
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Four quadrant multiplier is another name for the same thing, just referring to both x and y working for positive and negative values.
If you feed two sines in of say 500 and 120 Hz, you get two sines out at 620 and 380 Hz, the sum and difference. Limiting one or both of the inputs to unipolar just adds one or both the original frequencies to the output, which gives a more complex tone.
I have always thought ring modulators should in theory, sound more interesting than they actually do. |
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jksuperstar
Joined: Aug 20, 2004 Posts: 2503 Location: Denver
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mosc
Site Admin
Joined: Jan 31, 2003 Posts: 18195 Location: Durham, NC
Audio files: 211
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Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 1:19 pm Post subject:
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Here's another use of the ring modulator. I thought of this last night while watching the Super Bowl. Not that I invented it, I just thought of it, remembered it that is. This may give you an idea of how exciting the game was. The most boring part was The Rolling Stones wankeling through I Can't Get Not Satisfaction. I was thinking what a great song that was in 1965, but shit this is 2006! (Stevie Wonder was pretty good at the opening, however).
Anyhow, while bozos like those guys were writing hit records like that and rolling in money, drugs and women, some of us were playing with ring modulators. Here's the use of them I remembered:
Plug one signal into both of the inputs. It will give you a sort of frequency doubler with the harmonics messed up. Maybe it won't get you satisfaction, but it's something to try and it won't be as boring as the Rolling Stones.
I remember thinking in 1972 that rock 'n roll was dead. Well I was wrong. It was dead for me, but most of the world kept on rockin. Last night, The Stones killed rock 'n roll for good. |
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deknow
Joined: Sep 15, 2004 Posts: 1307 Location: Leominster, MA (USA)
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Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 1:52 pm Post subject:
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...the saxophone player for stevie (michael philips) was using the new akai ewi 4000 (there was chatter about this on the windcontroller yahoogroup). i did see him with it, but i didn't hear anything specific, he was also playing an actual saxophone.
deknow |
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Mohoyoho
Joined: Dec 03, 2003 Posts: 1632 Location: Tennessee
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softfreak
Joined: Feb 12, 2006 Posts: 149 Location: zürich switzerland
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Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 1:09 pm Post subject:
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I love the sound when
two guitarists play their
instruments simultaniously
through a ringmod.
the one I use :
Vermona rm-1.
I love it ! |
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blue hell
Site Admin
Joined: Apr 03, 2004 Posts: 24075 Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
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Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 1:22 pm Post subject:
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softfreak wrote: | I love the sound when
two guitarists play their
instruments simultaniously
through a ringmod. |
Do you maybe have a sound example somewhere ? _________________ Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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Mohoyoho
Joined: Dec 03, 2003 Posts: 1632 Location: Tennessee
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morbius
Joined: Feb 12, 2006 Posts: 95 Location: Great Smoky Mountains - USA
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softfreak
Joined: Feb 12, 2006 Posts: 149 Location: zürich switzerland
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Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 1:36 am Post subject:
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Blue Hell wrote: |
Do you maybe have a sound example somewhere ? |
nope.
but if everything works out fine
I will record some guitar/ringmod sounds in my next project. |
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elhardt
Joined: May 14, 2005 Posts: 73 Location: USA
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Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 11:51 pm Post subject:
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>>Heh... I sold my RM... never used it in the modular, and could use the space for stuff I do use.
_________________
~Morbius~ <<
What? You don't have room for a little RM module in your huge synth?
A ring mod is useful for all kinds of things. Running a couple of oscs that are tuned apart by a natural harmonic gets you some new waveforms that aren't metalic but provide new waveforms to use for musical purposes. An RM can work well for slightly detuned oscs, by giving you a more unstable sound which can be interesting. My MOTM Train Passing By demo, uses RM along with other stuff for all kinds of mechanical chaotic sounds, plus train bell. I use an RM in my different cymbal and hi-hat sounds along with FM. And or course it is useful for all kinds of other metalic sounds. The RM is a necessary module, and without one, a synth just becomes more limited.
-Elhardt |
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