Which project should Uncle Krunkus do a stripboard layout of next? |
The STD-1 Delay (MN3011) |
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35% |
[ 6 ] |
The Dimension-C ZCF (MN3207) |
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29% |
[ 5 ] |
Some type of sequencer (4017?) |
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35% |
[ 6 ] |
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Total Votes : 17 |
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Uncle Krunkus
Moderator
Joined: Jul 11, 2005 Posts: 4761 Location: Sydney, Australia
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Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 4:40 am Post subject:
Which stripboard layout next? |
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I know I've got heaps to do, but sometimes late at night when the soldering iron's gone cold I like to fire up Lochmaster and tease my brain trying to fit components into smaller and smaller spaces.
So,
here's a chance for you guys to have some input on the next stripboard layout I do. It also gives me a chance to try out that poll thing down the bottom of the page.
I'm keen on any of these 3 at the moment but add another option if you've got a good one.
1. The STD-1 delay (which you can find a good description of on Scott Stites site) It's stereo and based on the MN3011 multi tapped BBD.
2. The Dimension-C, including as many of the enhancements in Scott's ZCF version as possible. It's a spectacular stereo chorus-like effect with no LFO swirling, based on 2 MN3207s (bit easier to find than 3011s)
3. Some type of sequencer, could be very simple, like the one we roughed out in that other thread, could be more advanced if people want it to be.
Okay, I'll try out the polling thing now and see how it goes |
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Wild Zebra
Joined: Apr 28, 2005 Posts: 806 Location: Ohio
Audio files: 5
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Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 8:42 am Post subject:
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Oh thats a tuff one. I'd like all three, but I'd say delay, seq, chorus. Thats that vc controlled delay, right? Thanks Krunkus looking forward to the results. _________________ "your stripes are killer bro" |
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choklitlove
Joined: Dec 23, 2005 Posts: 144 Location: Indiana
Audio files: 17
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Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 9:47 am Post subject:
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i voted sequencer. but, i wouldn't mind a delay. i just don't think i'd make it.
a really complicated sequencer would be awesome, but then you've got to think about whether or not i would be able to make it.
make whichever, and we'll still build it. |
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deknow
Joined: Sep 15, 2004 Posts: 1307 Location: Leominster, MA (USA)
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Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 10:22 am Post subject:
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...diy simple sequencers are harder to come by than effects...i'd vote for a sequencer (and i might even build one).
deknow |
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Wild Zebra
Joined: Apr 28, 2005 Posts: 806 Location: Ohio
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Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 2:10 pm Post subject:
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Man 5 votes. 58 views. I'm given this one more airtime Krunkus. _________________ "your stripes are killer bro" |
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zipzap
Joined: Nov 22, 2005 Posts: 559 Location: germany
Audio files: 24
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Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 4:17 pm Post subject:
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hi there
whats a stripboard? Where can i get one? |
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Uncle Krunkus
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Joined: Jul 11, 2005 Posts: 4761 Location: Sydney, Australia
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Scott Stites
Janitor
Joined: Dec 23, 2005 Posts: 4127 Location: Mount Hope, KS USA
Audio files: 96
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Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 7:54 pm Post subject:
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The STD-1 is, by original design, voltage controllable.
The Dimension C originally was not, but I put in voltage control of the delay lines (CV modulates the delay lines in complementary fashion like the LFO does). A high modulation index and/or faster freqs than index turns it into quite a different critter. Envelopes, S&H, and pulse waves are fun to feed it with.
Sequencers can be voltage controllable as well. The clock can be made voltage controllable (or you could design it so that the signal from a VCO could drive it). Some sequencers have voltage controlled selection of active step. For example, inputting a triangle wave LFO will cause the steps to 'seesaw' back and forth at the rate of the LFO. Higher amplitude causes more steps on either side of the swing to become active as it swings through them.
Best Regards,
Scott |
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Uncle Krunkus
Moderator
Joined: Jul 11, 2005 Posts: 4761 Location: Sydney, Australia
Audio files: 52
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Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 9:11 pm Post subject:
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The simple sequencer is kind of coming along as I experiment, so it looks like the winner will be the STD-1 delay. (You may have to help me get the MN3011s Scott, hey, have got any LM13700s, I'll do ya a swap if you like). _________________ What makes a space ours, is what we put there, and what we do there. |
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kokoon
Joined: Jan 09, 2006 Posts: 158 Location: slovenia
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Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 10:06 pm Post subject:
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you can get the MN3011 @small bear for 16$. i just ordered a set of 3207 and 3205s (to europe) and it went through okay (i just need to pick them up at the post office)
http://www.smallbearelec.com/Detail.bok?no=457 |
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kokoon
Joined: Jan 09, 2006 Posts: 158 Location: slovenia
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Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 10:08 pm Post subject:
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oh and by the way i vote for the 3011 project. how many of them do we need? |
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Wild Zebra
Joined: Apr 28, 2005 Posts: 806 Location: Ohio
Audio files: 5
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Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 7:33 am Post subject:
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Oh I was just saying that this topic has a lotta hits and not alot of votes. Its all bueno though. Every will benifit even if they don't vote, Right . _________________ "your stripes are killer bro" |
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Scott Stites
Janitor
Joined: Dec 23, 2005 Posts: 4127 Location: Mount Hope, KS USA
Audio files: 96
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Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 7:36 am Post subject:
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Congrats on the decision. The STD-1 will be quite a project!
Each STD-1 will require one MN3011. You'll need two NE/SA572's (the Cadillac of the Phillips compandor line) for each STD-1 as well. The NE572 isn't too hard to get hold of. In fact, it's still in production by On Semi (Phillips stopped making it when their fab burned down). IIRC, Small Bear carries them as well.
There are a number of different op amps, all are obtainable at least here.
The one bit of unobtainium (at least in this part of the world) is the dual tracking regulator in the power supply. The STD-1 uses a +/-16V power supply - they squeeze every bit of S/N out of the MN3011 that they can, and higher operating voltage (obviously not too high) is one way of doing it. That may be one thing that would either need redesigned or bought off the shelf if you can't find the regulator.
Uncle K - I'm pretty sure Small Bear will ship to Oz, if not, I'll certainly help you out! Steve Daniels is a top notch guy, BTW.
Take care,
Scott |
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Scott Stites
Janitor
Joined: Dec 23, 2005 Posts: 4127 Location: Mount Hope, KS USA
Audio files: 96
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Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 10:16 am Post subject:
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The LFO arrangment of the STD-1 is pretty nice in itself. There are actually two LFO's, one LFO frequency modulates the other. The frequency control of the main LFO decreases the amplitude as the frequency is increased to give a smoother transistion from low to high frequency modulation.
Awhile back I breadboarded the LFO section, clock, and part of the audio section of an STD-1. Instead of using an MN3011, I used a sacrifical MN3007 just in case I had anything screwed up - rather lose the '07 than an '011.
The LFO was put in, and, to be honest, the MN3007 and filtering was put in a bit haphazardly - the clock and BBD were way too far apart (a big no-no in the world of BBD's). I didn't have any companding, and the regen mixing was done by the mixer in my modular. I used inverted and non-inverted regen by inverting the signal at the mixer. A less than ideal setup.
I made one sample of it, and it was torn down to make way for a more expedient project. I'm attaching the sample here. Don't expect an STD-1 to have near the noise and distortion this has (remember, no companding, poor location of BBD to clock, impromptu regen mixing). And of course, an MN3007 has only one tap, so the tapped stuff doesn't figure into it at all.
It's basically an example of the LFO/clock in action. I used my Korg DW6000 as the signal source. The very first part is 'dry', then I go in and fiddle with settings of LFO, regen mix, etc.
Getting back to the LFO, it's really a great design - you can have a fast modulation riding on a slower modulation. You can get a sort of 'flanging chorus' or 'flanging vibrato' or 'chorusing vibrato' or....well, you get the picture.
Cheers,
Scott |
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dnny
Joined: Mar 12, 2005 Posts: 519 Location: Helsinki, Finland
Audio files: 8
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Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 11:43 am Post subject:
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the poll is somehow broken - i can´t post my vote so here it comes
: "Some type of sequencer" -
or the DS7 -drum synce or the DS8
or the ... _________________ Association of experimental electronics
www.koelse.org
flickr: cable porn group |
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Pehr
Joined: Aug 14, 2005 Posts: 1307 Location: Björkvik, Sweden
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Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 11:51 am Post subject:
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or a trigger sequencer for the DS7/DS8
. Last edited by Pehr on Tue Jan 10, 2006 12:04 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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mosc
Site Admin
Joined: Jan 31, 2003 Posts: 18197 Location: Durham, NC
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Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 11:55 am Post subject:
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I fixed the poll. Somehow, it was set to expire after 4 days. I reset the expiration to 0 days - which is never expire. Aren't computers logical? _________________ --Howard
my music and other stuff |
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Wild Zebra
Joined: Apr 28, 2005 Posts: 806 Location: Ohio
Audio files: 5
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Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 12:06 pm Post subject:
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hijack, still haven't gotten around to that DS7 dnny. _________________ "your stripes are killer bro" |
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zipzap
Joined: Nov 22, 2005 Posts: 559 Location: germany
Audio files: 24
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Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 12:40 pm Post subject:
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Hey this stripboard thing looks cool!
so far i did everything on those bords that got no stripes, just little holes. Lots of little wires brought me close to nerval breakdown...
Are there any places in the web where one can find designs? maybe here?
bdw onkle Krunkus: whats that distortion thing you posted as an example? |
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Wild Zebra
Joined: Apr 28, 2005 Posts: 806 Location: Ohio
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Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 12:59 pm Post subject:
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Quote: | so far i did everything on those bords that got no stripes, just little holes. Lots of little wires brought me close to nerval breakdown...
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Not exactly sure what your trying to say here? But the layout above is a guitar trigger for the SoundLab http://www.musicfromouterspace.com/analogsynth/SOUNDLABMINISYNTH/soundlab.html which also has a stripboard layout via Krunkus. If your into guitars aron nelson's stompbox forum has lots of wonderful layouts. And the peeps over there are very helpful (sometimes )
http://www.elixant.com/~stompbox/smfforum/ _________________ "your stripes are killer bro" |
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zipzap
Joined: Nov 22, 2005 Posts: 559 Location: germany
Audio files: 24
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Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 1:17 pm Post subject:
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nice link
I´m trying to say that i use perfboard as it is called i think. When i build something like an adsr eg with ics and few discrete parts i use little wires to connect the ic-pins. that i don´t like.
I gota try eaching some boards, with drawing the layout, no photo stuff, but i haven´t got a stand for my drill and without i think its almost impossible to drill the holes at the right distance to fit ics. Got to get one i guess. |
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Wild Zebra
Joined: Apr 28, 2005 Posts: 806 Location: Ohio
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Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 2:16 pm Post subject:
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I'm pickin up what your laying down. heres a discussion about press and peel blue http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-6542.html. I think I'll refrain from derailing this original topic anymore. Sorry U.K. Last edited by Wild Zebra on Tue Jan 10, 2006 2:45 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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zipzap
Joined: Nov 22, 2005 Posts: 559 Location: germany
Audio files: 24
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Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 2:30 pm Post subject:
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i have heard of press an peel. i have to give it a try! |
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blue hell
Site Admin
Joined: Apr 03, 2004 Posts: 24079 Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 278
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Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 2:46 pm Post subject:
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zipzap wrote: | but i haven´t got a stand for my drill and without i think its almost impossible to drill the holes at the right distance to fit ics. Got to get one i guess. |
When you have (etched) guidance holes in the middle of the pads it's actually easier to drill by hand. Well for me it always was, I was breaking less drills that way.
Easiest it is with a small handheld drill, something like : http://www.dremel.com/HTML/home_fr.html for instance. But with a normal "household" drill it's possible as well (when you can find one that will hold sub-milimer drills, not many do) when you set it run permanently so you can use two hands to guide it - it gets somewhat heavy after a while though. _________________ Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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Uncle Krunkus
Moderator
Joined: Jul 11, 2005 Posts: 4761 Location: Sydney, Australia
Audio files: 52
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Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 4:03 pm Post subject:
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No worries Zeb, I like seeing where a chat ends up!
Pehr, check out my robotic ride cymbal, that's where the trigger sequencer will come from.
Dnny, I'm already keen on doing a stripboard for 2 DS7s which uses an LM13700 for the 2 OTAs as I have heaps of them. I think the STD-1 might come first though.
Mosc, I set it to expire after 4 days, I thought that was all it would need.
Scott, I'll look into acquiring the 3011s and the 572s further down the track. I've already got a great +/- precision PSU design which will be able to dial up 16V on each rail and stay there. And I have a spare 15-0-15 torroidal. I'm starting to think this project will be alot bigger than just "doing a stripboard layout"!!
But that's where I'll start. They usually need to be refined a fair bit anyway. Thanks for the clock-BBD proximity heads up. Didn't know about that. I put them close in the flanger, (just luck!) _________________ What makes a space ours, is what we put there, and what we do there. |
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