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 Forum index » Clavia Nord Modular » Bugs
noises on G2X out with usb cable connected
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Always go for the 15% Wink
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ersatzplanet



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PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 8:36 am    Post subject: noises on G2X out with usb cable connected
Subject description: Go Optical!
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The only way these sort of problems will go away in the home studio environment is when manufacturers start putting more optical connectors on theses boxes. I use optical connectors as often as I can. I have a few small S/PDIF to optical boxes and use them whenever I can. Here is a link to a company that makes USB-optical cables that isolate the grounds totaly: http://industrialcomponent.com/opticis/optusbext.html

The new USB 3.0 spec will do optical native soon: http://www.news.com/8301-10784_3-9780794-7.html

Here in the US lifting the ground connection is pretty easy - I use a 3-prong to 2-prong adaptor and just don;t connect the wire ground lead.

Optical isolation is the key though...

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Chrono



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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2008 5:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i once had a ground loop with a Edirol FA-66 on a laptop. unplugging the laptop's power supply fixed it. And atm with my USB Midimate connected to the MPC1000 the other way around also gives an unwanted buzz tone, I've had no problems with the g2 Smile I think lots of soundcards are giving the problems. And there are solutions.

Quote:
putting more optical connectors on theses boxes. I use optical connectors as often as I can. I have a few small S/PDIF to optical boxes and use them whenever I can

diddnt know that Smile might be of use in the future.
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lefev



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Resurrecting this old topic in hopes that there have been found workable solutions to this issue. The noise can be quite annoying in the worst case scenario: power, G2-usb and fw interface (RME FF 400) all hooked up to my computer (Mac Powerbook G4). A little better when unplugging usb. A lot better when unplugging power (usb + fw still plugged). I tried ungrounding the power plug by using a 3 to 2 prong adapter, but it had no effect... There is probably no easy solution, but if some of you have had success in defeating this crackling & stuttering noise, please share.

Thanks in advance!
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ark



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Two thoughts.

1) Is the noise hum or RFI? You might do different things, depending.

2) If the problem is hum, you might try an inexpensive stereo transformer to break any possible ground loops.
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lefev



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks for the response. It appears to be an issue with the usb communications, along with the power plug. I am tempted to try what Howard had mentioned- chopping off the ground on the power plug- but I thought the 3-2 prong adapter would answer that (perhaps not, there was no change). It appears that only a minority of G2 users have this problem, hmm...[/quote]
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mosc
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

lefev wrote:
A lot better when unplugging power (usb + fw still plugged). I tried ungrounding the power plug by using a 3 to 2 prong adapter, but it had no effect... There is probably no easy solution, but if some of you have had success in defeating this crackling & stuttering noise, please share.


So this certainly connected with the power connection of the G3 Mac, unless I'm misunderstanding this. I would unground all of the gear as a matter of course, but the problem could be that the G4 power supply is defective. If you could swap this out, it might help.

I recently visited the studio of a member here. After he showed me all of his super duper gear he pointed out ground lift plugs on every plug. He said until he read about this here on the forum he was always having hum and noise problems. He said he wasn't going to cut the ground lugs off the plugs because it might reduce the resale value. That might be sensible, but OTOH, if you buy some gear from someone who broke of the ground lugs you know they knew what they were doing. Wink

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Chrono



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 4:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

my g2 gave that anoying noise buzzer too, since i reconnected my pc and placed it elsewhere, actually reconnected everything and made sure all sensitivemy wires are not too close too eachother. I get the feeling the buzzer noise had reduced pretty much. A couple have/had the same problem. It comes from any USB source from the pc itself. Also if you connect the midi out to a midi in usb interface the buzzer noise dubbles when inserting the usb cable as well. ATM here It's still there on low level but cubase input VU meters are silent. Only external distortion will push the noise forward pretty much. I also removed the workstation mixer and i only use the focusrite saffire pro 26 i/o soundcard where my inputs and speakers are connected with.
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 10:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I made a new setup a couple of days ago with 3 G2s on one laptop and a USB sound interface on another laptop. All of it connected to a mixer and some FX thingies and then out to a 3rd computer (for streaming) with a hammerfall interface ... when I'd move the mouse on one of the laptops I'd hear it crackle on the sound interface output and on the G2 outs as well and pretty loud too, as in totally unusable ... then I just ground lifted the laptops and all digital pollution was gone. Later on I added yet another another sound interface, fire wire, to the same laptop the G2s are on, still no problems so far.

One of the laptops runs Vista though ... and that one really is a PITA with audio ... when I move windows around or when I scroll a text screen I get audio dropouts and other weird stuff ... even with long latency times set ... but thats another subject Wink

So far I don't have any MIDI cables in the setup, but that certainly could be another source for clicks and crackle ...

[Editors note: bold text added by mosc Wink ]

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fky



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Regarding this old topic, I bought a USB isolator with 4 cable outputs at about $80 a few days ago. It works! Nearly 95% of ground noise have been removed. Now I keep always used the isolator when connecting Virus, G2 and some DSI stuffs...
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mosc
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

FKY, thanks for that update. I didn't know they made USB isolators, but I'll look into it. Can you post a link to the one you've got?
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fky



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PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mosc wrote:
FKY, thanks for that update. I didn't know they made USB isolators, but I'll look into it. Can you post a link to the one you've got?


Not sure whether you are able to purchase this product from US. I purchase it from the distributor of the manufacturer in China. I rembered there is a USB isolator called USB-GT that possibly could be obtained from the US ebay. However it is more expensive than this one.

http://www.fourstar-dy.com/en_view.asp?id=235

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modulator_esp
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 2:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I have a similar problem with my G2, in that I get noise pollution from my laptop when I connect it to the G2 via USB. It's not too bad in the studio, but on stage it's horrible.

My solution was to get an audio ground loop isolator like this

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

http://www.xitel.com/usa/prod_gli.htm

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fky



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 5:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

modulator_esp wrote:
I have a similar problem with my G2, in that I get noise pollution from my laptop when I connect it to the G2 via USB. It's not too bad in the studio, but on stage it's horrible.

My solution was to get an audio ground loop isolator like this

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

http://www.xitel.com/usa/prod_gli.htm


I found that an article in SOS, which described this ground loop problem in detail. It provided two kinds of product solution: one is usb isolator the other one is audio isolator.
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/dec08/articles/qa1208_2.htm

For me, I would prefer to choose the solution that will not get into the audio connections in order not generating any color to the sound...
Maybe USB isolator is a good solution that may try.... The sound turned big again just liked USB is being unlpuged....

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Last edited by fky on Mon Apr 19, 2010 5:24 am; edited 1 time in total
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modulator_esp
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 5:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I haven't noticed any changes to the sound using the audio isolator, but will check to see if it does make any audible difference
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ark



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 6:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

modulator_esp wrote:
I haven't noticed any changes to the sound using the audio isolator, but will check to see if it does make any audible difference

I would think that isolating the USB would be better, because then you don't have to isolate four audio outputs plus four audio inputs.
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modulator_esp
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 6:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

ark wrote:
modulator_esp wrote:
I haven't noticed any changes to the sound using the audio isolator, but will check to see if it does make any audible difference

I would think that isolating the USB would be better, because then you don't have to isolate four audio outputs plus four audio inputs.


this would be true if I used them all, but I only use a stereo out

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Arnaud06



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 5:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm sorry to dig up this topic, but I have the same problem here.

If my speakers are plugged into the G2 Audio Out, with or without USB, I don't have any noise.

If I route the G2 AUdio out thru my Multiface 2/Pci Express soundcard, I have noise if the USB is plugged in.

Are USB Isolator really working ? I've found 3 models in Europe :

http://www.bb-europe.com/product_family.asp?FamilyId=651

http://www.wut.de/e-33001-ww-daus-000.php

http://electronicsshop.dk/usb_isolation.htm?currency=EUR

The last one is half the price of others, but will it still work ?

Thanks for the help, I want to use my G2 again Sad


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mosc
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

welcome Ofwhat to electro-music.com

I think those USB isolators are a great idea. I don't know which one is the best, but I like the looks of the first one.

Before I'd do that, make sure you cut the ground connection on your PC, and anything else that is connected to it. PC power supplies, especially those used on laptops, are notorious for creating ground loops.

I remove the ground pins on all of the power plugs in my studio and I haven't heard any noise or hum in decades.

Let us know how those isolation devices work.

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Arnaud06



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi mosc !

It's not my first post on electro-music, but it's the first time someone say hello ! So thanks Very Happy

I'll try to cut off the ground pin first. I'll let you know !

Thanks !
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mosc
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

No one else said hello? No good.

Anyway, I'm very lucky. I live in a old 1820 farm house and the electricity was last updated in 1946. There isn't a single ground wire in the entire house. It's an audio paradise. Smile

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 5:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi,
So I've pulled off every mass plug, but I still have some noise. So I'll order the first one of my list, I like it too Rolling Eyes

But which one should I take ? I think I can take one that goes at 1.5Mbps, but I don't know nothing about kV here...
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 6:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

2kV will be plenty ... its the maximum voltage between upstream and downstream grounds, interesting mainly for industrial usage.
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dorremifasol



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

My G2 takes lots of interferences from the USB port. To reduce the interferences A LOT, I use a short USB extension cable, with the ground pin disabled. I use a small paper to avoid the contact of that pin, very easy. Razz
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mosc
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

dorremifasol wrote:
To reduce the interferences A LOT, I use a short USB extension cable, with the ground pin disabled. I use a small paper to avoid the contact of that pin, very easy. Razz


Great suggestion, dorremifasol. Do you think you could post a picture to show how you do that?

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