expansion card vs. engine

zynthetix · Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2004 3:44 pm Post subject: expansion card vs. engine

I was kind of dissapointed when I discovered that the expansion card for the G2 merely allows more voices (although this is no laughing matter.) What I really wanted was the ability to make larger patches in each slot... Comparing the costs of the G2 expansion card with the G2 engine, I am debating if saving (even more Sad

) for the engine would be better since it would achieve larger performances (although it might take me another year...) . With some clever patching, more voices for a patch could be obtained too. What do you guys think about this? I can not tell if it would be worth waiting the extra while for an engine. Also, does anybody here use a combo of engines or keyboards with one or none expanded?

egw · Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2004 4:01 pm Post subject:

I think you can make larger performances with the expansion too, because you can use 100% of each common area and 100% of each fx area. So you can fill up 8 DSPs without increasing the number of voices.

zynthetix · Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2004 6:23 pm Post subject:

I have trouble understanding how these DSP processors work...So 100% DSP cycles on an expanded G2 is equivalent to a theoretical 200% DSP cycles on an unexpanded G2? Or is it like that for DSP memory? Or both? I would appreciate if someone could clear up for me exactly what the expansion card expands, i though it just doubled potential the voices.

ian-s · Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2004 6:40 pm Post subject:

The expander does double polyphony in the simplest case, it does more though. You can max out an unexpanded G2 with just two slots (100% each in VA/FX times 2). An expanded G2 could load all 4 slots with these type of patches, giving you twice the complexity. Of cause, such patches can only run as designed on a subset of G2 users machines. That's why I will probably stick with the lowest common denominator for now.

blue hell · Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2004 7:20 pm Post subject:

Each DSP is equivalent to 100%, expanded or non expanded. This holds both for CPU cycles as well as for memory (all DSPs have their own memory).

This means that an unexpanded G2 has 400% of everything and an expanded has 800%.

One patch can use 100% for the Voice Area and another 100% for the EX area, always.

But .. given the possibilities to let patches communicate with each other either through audio busses or over MIDI busses one could say that in performance mode the patches can be combined into a 'super' patch, which then can be 400% / 800% ddepending on whether an expansion is installed.

In a simple model however where you have one 100% patch using the voice area only you will have 4 / 8 voices for unexpanded / expanded.

Things get a bit more complicated when the FX area is used as well, as the FX area of a patch is only present once where the voice area gets as many copies as there are voices playing. When for example you have one patch using 100% VA and 100% FX you can have 3 voices of it on an unexpanded G2, that is one CPU for the FX area and 3 working on the VA. When you now plug in an expansion card you can have 7 voices of that patch, again onee CPU working on FX and the other 7 on the voice area.

It gets a bit more complex even when more than one patch is involved, but the point is I think that the flexibility of the G2 is such that there is a wide range of possible choices when trading voice count for patch complexity.

You seemed to be affraid of not being able to build large patches with an expanded G2, in fact though I think it's easier to do it on one expanded G2 than it would be in two G2s - two G2's would need some cabling and you would not have the internal audio busses and the maximum MIDI rate over an external cable is also lower than over the internal busses.

Jan.

zynthetix · Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2004 10:30 pm Post subject:

ok, this finally makes sense now. Thanks for helping me clear this up, I'll get the expansion card. (well, after I entirely max out the unexpanded G2 a few times...might as well efficiently learn how to use resources before getting more of them.)

Rob · Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2004 9:32 am Post subject:

It also depends a bit on what you want to do with the G2. If you need more voices the expansion board is the way to go. But if you need EFX an extra Engine is great, as you have four extra ins and outs on a separate box.