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mosc
Site Admin

Joined: Jan 31, 2003 Posts: 18240 Location: Durham, NC
Audio files: 224
G2 patch files: 60
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Posted: Fri May 07, 2004 7:26 am Post subject:
Anyone used the Doepfer Pocket Dial with the G2? |
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Has anyone used the Doepfer Pocket Dial with the G2? Seems like a natural.
http://www.doepfer.de/home_e.htm
This is different from the Pocket Control which uses pots, not endless rotary encoders. |
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Nodular

Joined: May 05, 2005 Posts: 80 Location: Milano
G2 patch files: 7
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Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 2:25 am Post subject:
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I'd like to know too... |
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3phase

Joined: Jul 27, 2004 Posts: 1189 Location: Berlin
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Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 6:45 am Post subject:
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i dont think the G2 understands incremental controlers... Or?
but..
maybe it should.. at least the engine would benefit from that. |
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jksuperstar

Joined: Aug 20, 2004 Posts: 2503 Location: Denver
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Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 9:03 am Post subject:
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Yeah, incremental controllers would be nice, you could have as much resolution as you wanted, instead of 7bits as per MIDI CC#s. I have an old Peavey StudioMix, which only uses NRPNs, meaning I need a translator somewhere to use it. NRPNs inthe G2 would be helpful for MIDI processing.
But MOSC is right, that little box looks like a match for the "empty" space on the G2's (I'm always looking for more things to put there!). |
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gal
Joined: May 12, 2004 Posts: 25 Location: zurich
G2 patch files: 10
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Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 9:53 am Post subject:
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Hi
It definitly understands incremental controllers. I used it a while ago with Cubase SX. But isn't there more than one method of incremental controller communication?
Best would be to check out the manual for detailed information about communication methods ( http://www.doepfer.de/pdf/pd_man.pdf )
good luck
gal
note Blue Hell : edited post to make link clickable |
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blue hell
Site Admin

Joined: Apr 03, 2004 Posts: 24423 Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 297
G2 patch files: 320
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Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 10:27 am Post subject:
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Some creative use of flipflops and or s&hs would give you NRPNs on the G2 I'd say. _________________ Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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Kassen
Janitor


Joined: Jul 06, 2004 Posts: 7678 Location: The Hague, NL
G2 patch files: 3
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Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 1:48 pm Post subject:
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Blue Hell wrote: | Some creative use of flipflops and or s&hs would give you NRPNs on the G2 I'd say. |
Rob already did that. It's just data and the NM is turning complete except for that pesky "infinite" bit so...
I'd say native NRPN support should immeditaly be on the "to do" list, but who am I? _________________ Kassen |
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sebber

Joined: Aug 27, 2004 Posts: 502 Location: Berlin
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Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 3:50 pm Post subject:
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What are NRPNs?  |
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blue hell
Site Admin

Joined: Apr 03, 2004 Posts: 24423 Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 297
G2 patch files: 320
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Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 4:39 pm Post subject:
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For some info on NRPN's see http://www.philrees.co.uk/nrpnq.htm
A summary :
It is a way to have finer detailed control over more parameters through MIDI. Normally with CCs you get 128 value steps for 120 controllers, with NRPN's you can get 16384 steps for I think 16384 controllers.
It works by first selecting through a special CC sequence a controller to manipulate and then sending values for that specific controller through some other CC messages. When you want to control another parameter you first have to select that one.
The price to be payed is some protocol overhead, meaning that more time is needed to control parameters in this way. Fast changing parameters in practice need less detail in their control, so those could be dealt with by normal CCs.
Doing it yourself :
An NM implementation would need some storage elements (S&H's) to remember values in and some logic to get values into that storage depending on the MIDI CC sequence seen. o not use all your resources for NRPNs only you would have to limit yourself to some parameters that you can to control in this way.
I of course agree that it would be nice to have this built in as a system feature, but when you really need it /now/ for some parameters you could build it yourself. _________________ Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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deknow

Joined: Sep 15, 2004 Posts: 1307 Location: Leominster, MA (USA)
G2 patch files: 15
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Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 9:39 pm Post subject:
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jan, would that be possible for pitchbend data? i can't quite picture the whole concept.
deknow |
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jksuperstar

Joined: Aug 20, 2004 Posts: 2503 Location: Denver
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Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 10:24 pm Post subject:
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Pitchbend's use a dedicated MIDI command (3bytes total) to transmit the 14bits of pitchbend data.
NRPN's use a sequence of 4 commands (2 for address and 2 for data) (12 bytes total) to allow the 14 bits of data transfer. They are like the CC expansion for undefined things, much like sysex allowed for undefined things. Sysex was intended for non-realtime control, whereas NRPNs are FOR real time control.
Pitchbend *could* be sent over NRPNs, but unless you have more than 1 pitchbend per MIDI channel, it'd be a waste of MIDI Bandwidth. It would be perfect for more than 1 pitchbend within a MIDI channel (Poly pitchbend?) |
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Kassen
Janitor


Joined: Jul 06, 2004 Posts: 7678 Location: The Hague, NL
G2 patch files: 3
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Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 3:38 am Post subject:
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Blue Hell wrote: | For some info on NRPN's see It is a way to have finer detailed control over more parameters through MIDI. Normally with CCs you get 128 value steps for 120 controllers, with NRPN's you can get 16384 steps for I think 16384 controllers.
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Yeah, that sounds right. Of cource it doesn't realy matter that you can adress that many parameters because MIDI is so slow and this stuff has a lot of overhead so morphs over 16K+ parameters will take quite a while.... _________________ Kassen |
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soundklang

Joined: Dec 16, 2007 Posts: 13 Location: hamburg, germany
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Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 11:04 am Post subject:
emulating incremental controls with the g2 |
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hi,
http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-25262.html shows a patch that emulates an incremental controller with a frontpanel knob. it also allows for independently assign and name a knob and a button to the frontpanel. |
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buzzr
Joined: Dec 13, 2007 Posts: 360 Location: portland
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Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 6:01 pm Post subject:
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I use the pocketdial with the G2 and it works great.
We are currently designing a midi controller like the Pocketdial but with better encoders (smoother) and the encoders also have switches built into them.
So the controllers will be smaller then the pocketdial, have 16 encoders that will be able to use four of the switches on the encoders to switch between the banks. The rest of the encoder switches will be used as cc. We are thinking that we might also be able to custom program for people who want something different.
The controller box will also have 2 inputs for outside sensors, maybe 4, we are still working this out. So... the list
16 encoders with switches
2 to 4 inputs for sensors
USB and MIDI out
and smaller then the pocketdial.
And no, it's not built from midibox.org designs.
Not sure when we are going to have these done as we are running into problems with the code (Amtel Chips)
www.buzz-r-electronics.com |
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mosc
Site Admin

Joined: Jan 31, 2003 Posts: 18240 Location: Durham, NC
Audio files: 224
G2 patch files: 60
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Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 10:46 am Post subject:
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Nice web site. Very interesting pics of DIY synths.  _________________ --Howard
my music and other stuff |
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puggo

Joined: May 19, 2005 Posts: 30 Location: spain
G2 patch files: 4
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Posted: Wed May 13, 2009 1:38 am Post subject:
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hello!
here a g2 newbie
would like to know if anyone here uses the "classic" pocket control to tweak the engine. I used it years ago with my first micromodular and worked for me...but surely I touched some of the backside pins and loose that generic preset. Don´t know if ithis first pocketc is suitable for my engine (it seems it receives control from the pocket, but can´t assign the controls properly on the editor)
tonight I´ll try with some "generic" presets from the pocket I´ve seen at the manual (the "masterchannel" ones)
all the best,
pug |
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buzzr
Joined: Dec 13, 2007 Posts: 360 Location: portland
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Posted: Wed May 13, 2009 6:01 am Post subject:
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Well, I have had both the pocket dial and the pocket control. Unfortunately the G2 has a bunch of midi channels taken and you cannot use them. Which makes it difficult when you have unprogramable midi controllers like the Pocket Dial and Control.
Here is the list:
Unusable MIDI CC#'s
0
1
7
11
17
18
19
32
64
70
80
96
97
121
123 |
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buzzr
Joined: Dec 13, 2007 Posts: 360 Location: portland
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Posted: Wed May 13, 2009 6:02 am Post subject:
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Faderfox is also this way. So, any small midi controller it seems is not really suited. |
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egw
Stream Operator

Joined: Feb 01, 2003 Posts: 1569 Location: Asheville NC
Audio files: 18
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Posted: Wed May 13, 2009 6:23 am Post subject:
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buzzr wrote: | Faderfox is also this way. So, any small midi controller it seems is not really suited. |
The Korg Nano has assignable controls.
Also the Behringer midi controllers, but they're a bit larger. _________________ www.gregwaltzer.com |
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puggo

Joined: May 19, 2005 Posts: 30 Location: spain
G2 patch files: 4
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Posted: Wed May 13, 2009 8:05 am Post subject:
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buzzr wrote: | Well, I have had both the pocket dial and the pocket control. Unfortunately the G2 has a bunch of midi channels taken and you cannot use them. Which makes it difficult when you have unprogramable midi controllers like the Pocket Dial and Control.
Here is the list:
Unusable MIDI CC#'s
0
1
7
11
17
18
19
32
64
70
80
96
97
121
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thanks for the help!
I´ll try it tonight. (crossing fingers)
best,
pug |
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buzzr
Joined: Dec 13, 2007 Posts: 360 Location: portland
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Posted: Wed May 13, 2009 8:34 am Post subject:
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Ah, yes the nano series. These are quite fragile unfortunately... |
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egw
Stream Operator

Joined: Feb 01, 2003 Posts: 1569 Location: Asheville NC
Audio files: 18
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Posted: Thu May 14, 2009 5:37 am Post subject:
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The Peavy pc1600x is very sturdy and completely programmable - not much bigger than the nano, but more expensive. No knobs, only buttons and sliders. The buttons don't light up to indicate on/off in toggle mode, which is one thing I like about the nano. _________________ www.gregwaltzer.com |
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grimley

Joined: Jul 07, 2004 Posts: 168 Location: Seattle
G2 patch files: 9
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Posted: Fri May 15, 2009 10:30 am Post subject:
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Haven't seen the Pocket Dial, but I did use the Doepfer Pocket Electronics to build this thing which fits perfectly on the right side of my G2:
Description: |
Custom joystick controller |
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19.37 KB |
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12361 Time(s) |

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Doepfer Pocket Electronics + G2 |
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153.33 KB |
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170 Time(s) |
This image has been reduced to fit the page. Click on it to enlarge. |

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davep

Joined: Jul 05, 2004 Posts: 467 Location: Oakland, CA
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Posted: Fri May 15, 2009 11:20 pm Post subject:
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grimley wrote: | Haven't seen the Pocket Dial, but I did use the Doepfer Pocket Electronics to build this thing which fits perfectly on the right side of my G2: |
Whoa! What the hell is that? _________________ Dave Peck |
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grimley

Joined: Jul 07, 2004 Posts: 168 Location: Seattle
G2 patch files: 9
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Posted: Fri May 15, 2009 11:29 pm Post subject:
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A bunch of radio shack knobs (not endless encoders) and switches and 2 Doepfer joysticks (with springs removed) connected to a Doepfer Pocket Electronics kit, stuffed into a Lacie drive enclosure plastered in Elektron stickers!
http://www.doepfer.de/pe.htm |
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