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 Forum index » Clavia Nord Modular » Nord Modular G2 Discussion
Controlling Chaos for evolving patterns
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iPassenger



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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 2:28 am    Post subject: Controlling Chaos for evolving patterns
Subject description: How to create semi random evolving sounds/patterns
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Hi all,

Just wondered if we could start a thread on how to make interesting and controlled random patterns/sounds. Following a brief quiz with Jan on the subject yesterday, he advised me to post something up on here n see how u all do it.

I have managed to get my head round quite a lot of the sound synthesis aspects of the Nord but I am struggling with the evolving concepts (such as complex arrangements of logic n sequencers), i find i am having to do the leg work with controllers, rather than getting the nord to do the labour.

A couple of pics below: 1st one is a really basic couple of controlled random modules, the lfo one, is quite cool cos u can get it to make repeatable random seqs rather than usinhg the random pattern module.

second one: the nearest i have got to a self controlled machine.


Simple Controlled Chaos.jpg
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Simple Controlled Chaos.jpg



controlling chaos 2.jpg
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controlling chaos 2.jpg



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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ross, could you post the patches as well ? Would save me some time in copying Very Happy

To me the sequencer approach usually does not work out very well, as it keeps on looping around forever doing the same. It doesn't even matter very much how long the sequences are, after a few loops it will be obvious anyway.

What I sometimes do to get some life in itis to set some of the loop lengths to odd numbers like 11 or 13. Usually the sequencer reset is tied to the clock's sync output and you can play a bit with when things get synced.

Alternatively some post processing could be used, either on the looped control signals or on the audio signals resulting from it.

On the other hand, plain random doesn't do the trick either, there has to be some order to make it attractive.

It's a bit hard to be specific about this as basically I just try stuff till I'm pleased by the results. To illustrate I'll add an example patch that I made based on this thread. I picked this one because it's a relativly simple patch.

This a a bit of a funny way of turning things around, the basic sequence is a random one, but when it would play the same note an alternative selection is used. The funny thing is that altough I would have expected the output to be more random instead a new order seems to be imposed by the switching process itself. A sort of a lucky find.


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rnd-lfo-ex-001.jpg



rnd-lfo-ex-001.pch2
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Last edited by Blue Hell on Thu Aug 23, 2007 2:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I suggest you check out the many patches submitted by megerov, http://electro-music.com/g2patches.php?owner=megerov

Especially look at the Mandelbrot and fractal patches. These have a knack of sounding repetitive but never repeating exactly.

After a lot of study with these, I find it is difficult to understand intuitively, but just use them as pattern generators and forget about understanding them. Laughing

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It's one thing to get these nice sequences, but if the rhythm is ignored, then it just sounds like a note generator spiting out notes on every beat. I'm interested in rhythm generators too.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Here's a variation of Jan's patch. I added a rhythm trick. I use event sequencers and a random selector. So at any clock tick, there is about a 25% chance that a given event sequence will fire. By selecting a beat on all four selectors, you are going to get 100% notes on that beat. So you can sorta control the probability of each one of the 16 beats.


autorhythm.pch2
 Description:
A simple patch for generation an automatic rhythm of some interest. Based on a melody generator by Blue Hell. The rhythm part is the 4 modules on the lower left.

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 Filename:  autorhythm.pch2
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I like to experiment with a couple of pre-made patterns that get randomly selected by a mux. Here is something I knocked together to show the principle (with a static drum line and bass note) - I would probably tweak it some more.

For the melody line there are no pre-made patterns, rather one of 8 different values are selected by the mux (the purple modules) for each note, the selections are random values, the bass line, the bass line offset by 7 half notes, the fourth or sixth latest note (taken from the delay shift register), or the mean value of the last and the seventh last note.

Edit: Noticed that my pattern thingie is a slightly different take on Mosc's rythm generator.

/Stefan


sbt_muxes.pch2
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Great ideas folks but there must be many takes on this, I certainly like the controlling the probability thro multiple sequencer approach.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

One of my versions of Megerov's chaos works.


My Algo 2.pch2
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

and a poly synth with semi random seqs:


Dirty Poly Seq2.pch2
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I like that poly synth thingie. Very nice.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

All good patches and all demonstrating their purpose, and all good in their way, but still all those damned sequencers, get rid of 'm Laughing


drummies.pch2
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no sequencers

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

That is awesome Blue.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks Ross, but the point is: get rid of those sequencers, they are boring and they are not needed Laughing ... well it depends on what music you want to make of course, but they are over-used and over-rated IMHO Very Happy

The patch above uses a bunch of LFO's with feedback. In this case, to get something of a steady pace, in it I used sample & holds to sync the outputs to a clock, The amount of feedback used, together with the speed of the LFO's determines an amount of randomness vs staticness. Putting slow random LFO's on that to modulate it gives some variation over time. When you want it to be more messy leave out the synching.

Here is a tribal-like variation, same idea as above. anyway, you can make it as nuts as you like, or tame it instead.


drummies-2.pch2
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ok, well ... thought that this could be a nice way to sequence maybe, doing some stuff on different time scales.


sequnce-1.pch2
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yeah, i do see yr point, it requires a different way of thinking/approach in order to work in this way.

I will try constructing my own, lfo driven rhythm device. If I can suss it out, will post it up.

Cheers

R.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 2:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

In the above I might have given the suggestion of saying bad things about other's patches. This was not my intention, I just wanted to stress other possibilities and got carried away in that a bit. I found all contributions here useful and interesting.

Please keep on posting your patches, without other's ideas I'd run around in circles as well.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

No worries Blue, I knew what you were getting at.

A quick experiment based on yr principle


Weird Seqs.pch2
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Blue Hell wrote:
In the above I might have given the suggestion of saying bad things about other's patches. This was not my intention, I just wanted to stress other possibilities and got carried away in that a bit. I found all contributions here useful and interesting.

Please keep on posting your patches, without other's ideas I'd run around in circles as well.


Don't worry. No bad intention came through. Sequencers have their uses and I agree, they tend to be over used. When it comes to "variations on a theme" techniques, they are very handy.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

iPassenger wrote:
No worries Blue, I knew what you were getting at.

A quick experiment based on yr principle


This is excellent! It has a classical music feel to it. Maybe because it sounds like pizzicato strings.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Shall listen later today, for now just : http://electro-music.com/forum/post-116460.html - not NM patches but an interesting approach to sequencing.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Here's something that I've been working on for the last year or so. This is NM specific. I think there is considerable value in making note generators in one slot that control sound generators in other slots. This keeps the process of generation and sound separate.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mosc wrote:
iPassenger wrote:
No worries Blue, I knew what you were getting at.

A quick experiment based on yr principle


This is excellent! It has a classical music feel to it. Maybe because it sounds like pizzicato strings.


Cheers.

Funny you say that, cos it started out with a string osc but I couldn't get it to behave the way I wanted it to.

With regard to keeping the SEQ/CONTROL and SYNTH seperate, I agree. This is a smart approach, It allows for two sets of mutators to be run n this can then result in some seriously bizarre patches.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Blue Hell wrote:
Shall listen later today, for now just : http://electro-music.com/forum/post-116460.html - not NM patches but an interesting approach to sequencing.


I'm not quite ready for this kinda stuff yet, am only just getting my head round the nord.

But it looks cool anyway.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

iPassenger wrote:
No worries Blue, I knew what you were getting at.

A quick experiment based on yr principle


Ok, thanks.

And I looked into the patch and agree with Howard, excellent. I like variation 1 best.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

iPassenger wrote:

But it looks cool anyway.


Wait a sec ... http://electro-music.com/forum/post-90461.html

People didn't like it very much apparently, but it's an interesting sequncer nevertheless.

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