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circuit to scale 0-10v to 0-5v?
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sneakthief



Joined: Jul 24, 2006
Posts: 569
Location: Berlin

PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 12:38 pm    Post subject: circuit to scale 0-10v to 0-5v? Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

pardon me if this is a rudimentary question, but is there a simple way to scale a voltage source of 0-10v to 0-5v?

i've built a lovely MIDIbox CV midi-cv converter ( http://www.ucapps.de/midibox_cv.html ) and am in the process of adding CV-input functionality. unfortunately the analog inputs of this project only accept 0-5v.

once i get the input voltage it scaled down, the software will then convert the voltage to a note number - and with the help of a few ASM gurus, we're going to create a scale-quantizer and harmonizer.

Info: the MIDIbox CV supports 8 CV+Gate & sync out and can be built for as low as $60-70 US with a little help from microchip & analog devices Wink

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etaoin



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 12:55 pm    Post subject: Re: circuit to scale 0-10v to 0-5v? Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

sneakthief wrote:
pardon me if this is a rudimentary question, but is there a simple way to scale a voltage source of 0-10v to 0-5v?


Use a voltage divider made from two resistors...

Code:

signal in --- resistor ---+--- resistor --- ground
                          |
                     signal out


I gues 100k resistors would do fine.
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sneakthief



Joined: Jul 24, 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

ok i figured as much Smile thanks!
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Thomas Henry



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The divider takes care of the voltage levels, as explained above, but there's more to think about.

You should also consider the output impedance. According to the Electronotes standard, the output Z of most synth circuits should be 1K. This is easy to arrange here. Besides computing the divider voltages mentioned above, arrange for the parallel resistance of the two resistors to be equal to the desired Z.

For this case, we want 0 to +10V to go to 0 to +5V, with a output Z of 1K (common for Electronotes circuits). Choosing both resistors to be 2K gives the required voltage reduction (10V max to 5V max), and in parallel they are 1K, a good impedance to drive other modules without worrying about shorted outputs.

My rule of thumb has always been: design a circuit to (a) be elegant, and (b) not burn up or cause other modules to burn up, no matter how stupid the operator may be.

Thomas Henry
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sohcahtoa



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thomas,

I don't see any parallel resistors in that circuit, are you talking in reference to some other circuit?

Furthermore what is "Electronotes" ?
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etaoin



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:

You should also consider the output impedance. According to the Electronotes standard, the output Z of most synth circuits should be 1K.


Quite true. I was just thinking the other way round, i.e. scaling the input of the target circuit and not the output of the MIDI-CV. Especially since 0-10V is a pretty common range for control voltages I'd just keep that like it is.
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mono-poly



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 11:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

This would work out good both directions.


cvscaler[1].gif
 Description:
CV Scaler both directions
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cvscaler[1].gif


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EdisonRex
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 12:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

sohcahtoa wrote:
Thomas,

I don't see any parallel resistors in that circuit, are you talking in reference to some other circuit?

Furthermore what is "Electronotes" ?


http://electronotes.netfirms.com/

Bernie has been publishing since the early 70s. I grew up collecting Electronotes, and built my first and second synthesizers using circuits from Electronotes. The Musical Engineer's Handbook is a classic.

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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 3:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I am also having problems with the parallel resistance idea. They are in series aren't they?
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blue hell
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 3:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Uncle Krunkus wrote:
I am also having problems with the parallel resistance idea. They are in series aren't they?


For the impedance calculation the resistors can be considered to be in parallel. This is because the leftmost (usually drawn topmost) resistor is assumed to be driven from a low (zero) impedance circuit (voltage source). This low impedance is referenced to ground. The other resistor is directly conncted to ground, so from that perspective they seem to be parallel,

Still the resistors are in series indeed Very Happy

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also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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sneakthief



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 6:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

many thanks to everyone for the input!

re. Electronotes - In 1975 the author of Electronotes, Bernie Hutchins, wrote a book called the "Musical Engineer's Handbook" - both the Electronotes series and this book have basically been the reference and inspiration for a good portion of todays modular synths.

AFAIK Don Buchla, Bob Moog and Serge Tcherepnin were all subscribers to Electronotes and were definitely inspired by the schematics and/or contributed their own to the magazine.

I would even go so far to say that most current modular manufacturers have "borrowed" designs from the Electronotes series ; )

ps. Mr. Henry, it's delightful to have you here Smile

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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 8:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks Jan,
suddenly it all makes sense! Cool
I think. Wink

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Thomas Henry



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

sohcahtoa wrote:

I don't see any parallel resistors in that circuit, are you talking in reference to some other circuit?


No. The two resistors are seen as parallel by the circuit being driven by the tie-point of the resistors.

It's easy to set up a spread sheet to compute good values showing various combinations of impedances and voltage levels.

Hope this helps,

Thomas Henry
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Scott Stites
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Mmmmmmyep. Actually, one of my favorite Thomas Henry tricks is to get a 1K impedance out of a 15V -> 5V divider. The signal passes through a 3K resistor with a 1.5K resistor to ground. Violin! - you get a 5V output out of 15V and it's a 1K output impedance. Very handy for converting a comparator signal that rails at +15V to a +5V signal (say an Electronotes standard +5V gate or trigger). Learned that one from the Potpourri module in "Build a Better Music Synthesizer".

What's that? You use 10V gates and triggers? No problem, swap the two resitors around and Viola! - you get a 10V signal with an output impedance that is still 1K.

The above explains the output resistors on the Klee gate bus, and the note about the 10V gates/triggers.

Cheers,
Scott
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