Author |
Message |
sheridan
Joined: Jun 05, 2005 Posts: 473 Location: London, England
Audio files: 27
G2 patch files: 60
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
ian-s
Joined: Apr 01, 2004 Posts: 2669 Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Audio files: 42
G2 patch files: 626
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
3phase
Joined: Jul 27, 2004 Posts: 1183 Location: Berlin
Audio files: 13
G2 patch files: 141
|
Posted: Sat May 19, 2007 3:40 pm Post subject:
Re: How to improve G2 kick drums... |
|
|
sheridan wrote: | Will any of the Logic modules help me to insert a tiny gap (in audio) before each drum trigger in a sequencer? Or maybe I need to affect the actual oscillator to stop this? Or... does anyone know any other way to irradicate this variation in the initial transients?
I have attached a basic patch that demonstrates this problem. |
I ve no G2 online wright now..but what happens when you envelop the whole BD sound again like with a gate...with a normals ADSR in reset mode? maybe this compensates for the phenomen by the little initial attack time of the secondary vca? |
|
Back to top
|
|
|
Kassen
Janitor
Joined: Jul 06, 2004 Posts: 7678 Location: The Hague, NL
G2 patch files: 3
|
Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 7:23 am Post subject:
|
|
|
How about using a regular ADSR controling a seperate VCA.... In that case you can LPF the ADSR's curve which will prevent if from jumping values too quickly if it's reset. This will also make you lose the option of having a very short attack butt that can be compensated for by using a paralel AD envelope that's controling noise. The second envelope would be for the initial click and that one would be so short that it's very unlikely to ever be reset while it's running.
This way you won't have to depend on osc-reset for a punchy attack either. osc-reset is also a cause of clicking at the end of the previous drum and you won't need to depend on that for the next if that moment will be masked by the click of the noise anyway. _________________ Kassen |
|
Back to top
|
|
|
sheridan
Joined: Jun 05, 2005 Posts: 473 Location: London, England
Audio files: 27
G2 patch files: 60
|
Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 8:34 am Post subject:
|
|
|
Thanks guys... I was hoping for a simple fix... oh dear.
Ian, I have to say that your idea works well, but the kick drums I use in performances can be quite DSP heavy (12+ modules), so this could be a problem to implement on a 'fully fledged' kick.
Sven, I tried a variety of additional envelopes, but it made little or no difference... I did notice that even when I raised the attack, so there was no initial click, the click still remained, meaning that it actually happens at the end of the sound and not the start. If you remove some event triggers from the sequencer, you can hear this more clearly... the spaced out kicks have no click and only the close ones have it.
Kassen, I tried out your method too, but to no avail. The LPF on the env didn't make much/any difference, probably because of the above mentioned fact the the click happens BEFORE the next drum sounds.
Am I being stupid here, or isn't the reset env mode supposed to solve this problem??? Bugger! _________________ Sheridan
Hear music and Nord Modular G2 patches and find out music production tips at
http://www.nitetimeproductions.co.uk |
|
Back to top
|
|
|
Fozzie
Joined: Jun 04, 2004 Posts: 875 Location: Near Wageningen, the Netherlands
Audio files: 8
G2 patch files: 49
|
Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 8:57 am Post subject:
|
|
|
sheridan wrote: | Am I being stupid here, or isn't the reset env mode supposed to solve this problem??? Bugger! |
I don't want to answer affirmatively , but I think that in monophonic mode the reset env mode logically causes the problem (depending on the fase of the signal at that moment). It cuts immediately back to zero if it's not finished yet but a new trigger comes in. With increased polyphony it would not cut out like that, but that's not practical/economical for percussion patches. I don't see an obvious solution without affection timing or polyphony (but that may not say much about the real possibilities ) _________________ Spinning at ~0.0000115740740741 Hz |
|
Back to top
|
|
|
Kassen
Janitor
Joined: Jul 06, 2004 Posts: 7678 Location: The Hague, NL
G2 patch files: 3
|
Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 9:05 am Post subject:
|
|
|
sheridan wrote: |
Kassen, I tried out your method too, but to no avail. The LPF on the env didn't make much/any difference, probably because of the above mentioned fact the the click happens BEFORE the next drum sounds.
|
I don't think so; the envelope's output is just a voltage and the LPF treats a continuous signal so it doesn't realy matter at what stage the click happens. If there's still a click the LPF will need to be set lower, if it didn't affect it much it clearly needs to go WAY lower. I guarantee you that the click won't be as clicky anymore if the LPF goes low enough but obviously at a certain point it'll just make a blur out of the whole envelope shape which can't be desireable either.
I'm not sure exactly *how low* but the G2's LPF's can go quite low if you set them to their lowest setting, then apply negative modulation on top of that. _________________ Kassen |
|
Back to top
|
|
|
varice
Joined: Dec 29, 2004 Posts: 961 Location: Northeastern shore of Toledo Bend
Audio files: 29
G2 patch files: 54
|
Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 9:18 am Post subject:
|
|
|
Most of the click noise appears to be caused by the trigger sync resetting the oscillator. Do you really need to reset the oscillator?
If you want to keep the oscillator reset, then I would suggest that you add a low pass filter to the output of the oscillator (before the amp env). Set the LPF slope and freq to taste. _________________ varice |
|
Back to top
|
|
|
sheridan
Joined: Jun 05, 2005 Posts: 473 Location: London, England
Audio files: 27
G2 patch files: 60
|
Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 9:38 am Post subject:
|
|
|
Hey Varice, you're right... the problem with not syncing the oscillator is that as it is free to oscillate (not in time with the music), the click will still only appear on some kick sounds.
I usually use the LPF method and use another oscillator to produce the mid/top end, but this introduces phase problems... arghhhh! _________________ Sheridan
Hear music and Nord Modular G2 patches and find out music production tips at
http://www.nitetimeproductions.co.uk |
|
Back to top
|
|
|
Falk
Joined: Mar 07, 2006 Posts: 75 Location: Sweden
G2 patch files: 29
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
sheridan
Joined: Jun 05, 2005 Posts: 473 Location: London, England
Audio files: 27
G2 patch files: 60
|
Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 10:55 am Post subject:
|
|
|
Hey, nice solution Falk. The only problem is that the delay puts the drum out of sync with everything else. I suppose I could add delay modules to all the other sequencers. _________________ Sheridan
Hear music and Nord Modular G2 patches and find out music production tips at
http://www.nitetimeproductions.co.uk |
|
Back to top
|
|
|
Falk
Joined: Mar 07, 2006 Posts: 75 Location: Sweden
G2 patch files: 29
|
Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 11:07 am Post subject:
|
|
|
Yeah, well you basic problem here is that Clavia failed to implement that really useful module that predicts what is going to happen in the future
You might want to mention that in the wish list forum....
/Falk |
|
Back to top
|
|
|
ian-s
Joined: Apr 01, 2004 Posts: 2669 Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Audio files: 42
G2 patch files: 626
|
Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 12:01 pm Post subject:
|
|
|
Falk wrote: | Yeah, well you basic problem here is that Clavia failed to implement that really useful module that predicts what is going to happen in the future
|
Like the ms20 ESP section. |
|
Back to top
|
|
|
davep
Joined: Jul 05, 2004 Posts: 467 Location: Oakland, CA
Audio files: 10
G2 patch files: 73
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|