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 Forum index » Clavia Nord Modular » Nord Modular G2 Discussion
If there's no G3, I reckon G2 should become soft-synth
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Tim Kleinert



Joined: Mar 12, 2004
Posts: 1134
Location: Zürich, Switzerland
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G2 patch files: 233

PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I made a volatile sampling building block some time back. It's not up to date, as I've constantly improved the techniques involved. But I can make a new one.

Reaktor has alot of sampling options, both on-the-fly and also with importing samples and making keygroups etc.. It's one of the reasons alot of folks turn to it.
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sean wayland



Joined: Mar 30, 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 11:22 am    Post subject: how about this ?
Subject description: alternate to G2
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shame they discontinued the synth ... this might be good . its pricey

http://www.symbolicsound.com/cgi-bin/bin/view/Products/Pacarana
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GovernorSilver



Joined: Apr 26, 2004
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Indeed, with the discontinuation of the G2 line, a void has been left in the $1000-$2500 price ranges for those who want to make sounds with an open-ended, modular toolkit that happens to be hardware based. Unless you count the Muse Research Receptor, I suppose.
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Tim Kleinert



Joined: Mar 12, 2004
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Location: Zürich, Switzerland
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G2 patch files: 233

PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I think we've come to a stage where this software-hardware dichotomy is moot. ALL digital sound synthesis is -and has always been- software code, running on some kind of hardware. This hardware was (or had to be) proprietary for a long time, but with the processing power of personal computer CPUs having grown, this no longer has to be the case. And since the quality of even midrange soundcard DACs is beyond reasonable reproach nowadays (the self-proclaimed audiophiles of course always have something to bitch about, but they are seldom able to convincingly back up their criticisms in blindfold tests Laughing), there's no reason not to use so-called "software synths" (stupid term, see above) running on a laptop.

The often-cited reliability concern is moot too, imo. The laptop I am writing this on has seen heavy use (hours a day) for 6 years straight, and has never crashed -ever. However, I remember quite a few cases of so-called "hardware" crashing on me.

So-called "hardware" still sells, because folks want their piano, organ and string sounds within seconds of pressing the "on" button. That's the kind of hardware that sells. And that's what Clavia/Nordkeyboards is building. It's also a nostalgic thing -when buying hardware, you have the feeling that "you are getting something 'real' for your money", something tangible. With software you only get a licence to use it.

What people forget is that this proprietary digital hardware is only as valuable as the software it runs. Cynically put: Hardware is just a fancy dongle. Twisted Evil

Clavia is a self-proclaimed "hardware" manufacturer. Hence it is logical that they take the "piano and organs at a button press" route. They have no choice. Computer-based modular platforms have long overtaken them anyway. And there is a far bigger choice here, too. For those who eg. find Reaktor too daunting, there's VAZ modular. Sounds great, and just as easy to use as the G2.

The control interface issue is moot aswell these days. Reaktor5 will register any controllable parameter to the DAW host, meaning that a DAW control surface that supports MackieControl protocol can control all patch parameters automatically, without even having to assign them to knobs.
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sean wayland



Joined: Mar 30, 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 5:00 pm    Post subject: soft synths Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Does that mean you are going to email me some reaktor patches tim ?
Can you really get rid of the latency ( i suspect jitter problems too ) and get the soft synths to groove real time with a live band ? That's what interests me . Computer music is cool , but I prefer being on stage in front of real people with my musician friends ... The G2X is great for that . It is no more reliable than a computer however . At least you can still purchase a new mac if it breaks . I doubt they will "discontinue" a mac anytime soon .

sean
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dorremifasol



Joined: Sep 28, 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 5:25 pm    Post subject: Re: soft synths Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

sean wayland wrote:
I doubt they will "discontinue" a mac anytime soon.


Don't be so sure. Nothing ensures that a new Mac operating system or hardware will be compatible with the current one in the future. All the contrary, in my experience everything related to computers is repeatedly discontinued in favor of new components and technology. Computers are not build to last, as far as I see.

Today, a Nord Lead 1 (1995) probably works as well as the first day, after years of daily use. I wonder how well would work a computer from that time.

Moreover, you can sell a Nord Lead 1 for much more than a computer of the same year.

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GovernorSilver



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Granted, most of my synths are hardware, but the main reason is MIDI-only controller keyboards have been of relatively inferior quality. I have owned M-Audio and Novation keyboard controllers, and also tried the CME's - all feel cheap in comparison to my keyboard synths.

When MIDI-only controller keyboards get up to the standards set by current hardware keyboard synths, then we might see more widespread acceptance of softsynths.

I just ordered Logic Studio which comes with some nice softsynths (Sculpture, EXS, etc.). I have no doubt within the next 5 years I will pay additional cash for upgrades/updates to these softsynths, especially those required to get them to run on a future computer platform.

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Tim Kleinert



Joined: Mar 12, 2004
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Location: Zürich, Switzerland
Audio files: 7
G2 patch files: 233

PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 1:19 pm    Post subject: Re: soft synths Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

sean wayland wrote:
Does that mean you are going to email me some reaktor patches tim ?

Sure, when I have something worthwile Smile I'm still in the dabbling phase. The learning curve is very steep. Confused And patching is way not as much fun as on the G2. I haven't spent that much time with Reaktor anyway, as Massive and Absynth cover so much ground of what I need at the moment (I bought Komplete5 last year). Absynth outperforms my G2 PolyGranuSynth patches in just about every way imaginable, and there's alot of hidden potential in Massive with it's feedback routings. I'm getting alot of mileage out of these two plugs, so I don't feel the urge to go modular at the moment.


sean wayland wrote:
Can you really get rid of the latency ( i suspect jitter problems too ) and get the soft synths to groove real time with a live band ?

If you mean digital audio jitter: This is only a potential issue of your audio-interface, if it has a sub-par wordclock. I use RME, and their clocks are very good -surely better than those of the G2 converters.
If you mean MIDI jitter: Also, this is a potential issue of the MIDI ports of your audio-interface (if it has them). The RME is rock-solid. I've played patches with pitch-bend, modwheel, breath controller, aftertouch and footcontroller all used at the same time -which is a hell of alot of MIDI data- without any hiccups or timing problems.

So all this is solvable by getting the right gear. I swear by RME.

Latency is simply an issue of your processing power. At home, I have a Core2Quad 4x3.00 workstation (in a 19" casing), running on 64 samples latency, which is 1.45 ms. That's better than most hardware synths. I run many instances of Massive in high-quality mode as well as many instances of Reaktor running my favourite reverb (a sample-accurate recreation of the Quantec Yardstick) -without problems.

The first quad-core laptops have lately hit the market.


sean wayland wrote:
That's what interests me . Computer music is cool , but I prefer being on stage in front of real people with my musician friends ... The G2X is great for that .

Oh, sure. I've been using two of those dudes for 5 years now. I'm just not happy with the sound quality anymore. I need better reverbs, better filter and oscillator algorithms, convolution-type amp modelling etc.

If you don't want a laptop on stage, there are the OpenLabs Neko keyboards (power PC in a 61-key keyboard, touchscreen etc.). They seem pricey at first glance, but if you add up all the components, the price is quite reasonable actually.

GovernorSilver wrote:
Granted, most of my synths are hardware, but the main reason is MIDI-only controller keyboards have been of relatively inferior quality. I have owned M-Audio and Novation keyboard controllers, and also tried the CME's - all feel cheap in comparison to my keyboard synths.

When MIDI-only controller keyboards get up to the standards set by current hardware keyboard synths, then we might see more widespread acceptance of softsynths.


Oh, I agree 200%! This really bugs me big time. It seems to be an impossibility to get a good quality controller keyboard. Seems as nobody is into real playing these days. I have a Yamaha KX61 here in my studio, only because it seamlessly integrates with Steinberg software (Steinberg belonging to Yamaha these days). It's OK, but not stellar. The best seem to be the Edirol ones, but I'm not a fan of the Roland pitch/mod lever. But I'll probably go with those soon. (I loved the idea of the Novation Remote keyboards, but their pitch/wheel joystick is downright horrible.)

cheers,
tim
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purusha



Joined: Mar 13, 2008
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Location: Ilkley

PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 1:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Interesting point on the keyboard feel.

I'm not a brilliant musician by any means and my primary instrument is electric guitar, not keyboard.

I do know what I like and what I don't like on the keyboard and pitch/mod wheel setup though.

As it happens, my favourite setup (from those I've tried) is that on the Nords (I've got a NL3 and a G2). Since I'm no piano player, the light touch compared to my other 3 keyboards suits me well.

They give me a pretty good controllable range on velocity and aftertouch. Mod wheel has good granularity.

The 2 Korgs I have have a kind of 'bump' in the middle of the range of movement, if you know what I mean. That always feels a bit odd to me.

I just hope the NL3 survives a fair few years, or I can at least get maintenance done on it!

Smile

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GovernorSilver



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Just learned that Muse Research sells a version of Receptor 2 that is preloaded with NI Komplete, which would include Reaktor and the other goodies...
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GovernorSilver



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

purusha wrote:

I just hope the NL3 survives a fair few years, or I can at least get maintenance done on it!

Smile


I have no doubt your NL3 will outlive any M-Audio, Novation, or CME keyboard that was made at the same time.

Another appeal of hardware synth keyboards for me is they can be used as softsynth controllers AND generate internal sounds. If the softsynth-running computer crashes at a live show, the hardware synths are available for backup.

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_39.6 eranot



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PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I think that a vst version of the G2 is not useful

Yes, the G2 is a great machine but its vst version goes to the Reaktor, Plogue Bidule or Zebra category, without news.

IMHO, a great feature of the G2 is its facility to make an ad hoc hardware interface...for example I have create a lot of patch to control my MPC or Elektron hardware. I have made this patches for every track that I play during my liveset. (for this reason I haven't add any patch to the forum...they are minimal and exclusively for one or two activities).

Bye!

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Unfed



Joined: May 11, 2004
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i'm pretty sure there's plenty of G2 Engine users who've gotten by without the full interface of the keyboard version. Wink

Reaktor is nowhere near as quick and fun to build with, though i could see the argument that it might be more rewarding in the end. if the G2 featured macro modules and custom module/machine building it'd be even better. being a VST instrument would probably take care of the lack of sampling facilities as well.

i don't know, there's something about Reaktor that never sat well with me. i bought it a few years back hoping it could 'replace' the G2 for me, but i never quite hit it off with it. i may just give it another shot some time, i'm sure that it's capable of doing everything i'd ever want sound-wise.

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