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Blacet Time Machine PCBs!
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diablojoy



Joined: Sep 07, 2008
Posts: 795
Location: melbourne australia
Audio files: 11

PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

getting close to finishing my build Smile
getting echo's ok though clock noise is a bit of an issue
at some settings, Sad the trimmer has a limited effect seemingly at
different time settings and might actually
be be better placed on the front panel not sure on that yet though Confused
the wet signal vactrol pan mod is working good now
just the gated invertor for regen mod and front panel markings to go


Quote:
There's just one part I can't seem to get my hands on:

Max362 or DG202B, as Dave suggested.

Any hints for a source, preferable in Europe?


I managed to get a DG202 thru element 14 some time ago
i also have a few DG412 spare so i could also try one out if you wish
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mig27



Joined: Mar 09, 2011
Posts: 21
Location: Berlin

PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 2:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

fonik wrote:
the DG202 is a quad SPST CMOS switch in NO configuration. you could substitute it with an e.g. MAX313 or DG412 (same pin out).


Thanks Matthias - will see what I can find.
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diablojoy



Joined: Sep 07, 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 1:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Smile finally finished my build of the time machine + some extra's
I'am reasonably happy with the end result so here's some pics


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loydb



Joined: Feb 04, 2010
Posts: 369
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 6:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Looks good!
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StephenGiles



Joined: Apr 17, 2006
Posts: 481
Location: England

PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 7:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Any chance of a sample?
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blacet



Joined: May 27, 2009
Posts: 18
Location: oregon

PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 7:15 am    Post subject: Time Machine Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

BTW, we have a "Five Pack" of PCBs for $249, mix or match formats. Still includes the extra bits plus a MAX362. Link is on the DIY page.

John


http://www.blacet.com/DIY.html
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diablojoy



Joined: Sep 07, 2008
Posts: 795
Location: melbourne australia
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
Any chance of a sample?


will try and get one up soon
Quote:
"Five Pack" of PCBs for $249, mix or match formats. Still includes the extra bits plus a MAX362

hmm nice thought and very tempting i still have 8 tested and working MN3005 to put in something but i have been contemplating trying to come up with a board design that would use all 8 for a stereo delay with a wider bandwidth at long delay times still i maybe able to work it with 8 TM boards , it is an option Smile
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delayed



Joined: Jun 24, 2008
Posts: 129
Location: TN

PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

What are the "extras" on the TM?
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diablojoy



Joined: Sep 07, 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
What are the "extras" on the TM?

CV attenuators on all Cv in jacks
added a vactrol pan cct taken from the wet signal
with a gated inverter in front so a straight positive CV signal
from a seq can be used to pan to additional left and right outputs
also another gated inverter is set up on the regen CV in
which is kind of nice to use on very short delays ala flanging
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LektroiD



Joined: Aug 23, 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 3:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Oooft! Are these gold plated? Shocked
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diablojoy



Joined: Sep 07, 2008
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Location: melbourne australia
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ok quick and nasty mp3
A bit of playing with the pan rate in the first half with delay time also being
varied by cv from a seq ,rythmic structure 2nd half is down to pulse width variation being narrowed manually on a fonik master clock with the TM delays playing a part. delay time is still being varied by a seq. the panning also reinforces the effect. key changes come from my one octave pedal board.


time machine test b Rendered.mp3
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StephenGiles



Joined: Apr 17, 2006
Posts: 481
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2011 5:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

diablojoy wrote:
Ok quick and nasty mp3
A bit of playing with the pan rate in the first half with delay time also being
varied by cv from a seq ,rythmic structure 2nd half is down to pulse width variation being narrowed manually on a fonik master clock with the TM delays playing a part. delay time is still being varied by a seq. the panning also reinforces the effect. key changes come from my one octave pedal board.


That sounds nice and echoey, I'd love to hear it with guitar which is more my thing.
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diablojoy



Joined: Sep 07, 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2011 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
I'd love to hear it with guitar which is more my thing.

clean or down and dirty ? Smile I think i can accomodate that maybe,
though signal levels maybe a bit iffy, will try it through a send channel
also i havent picked up any of my guitars for far too long Embarassed so it
likely wont be good.
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diablojoy



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 3:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ok Stephen hope this will surfice
did about a eleventy takes and of course ended up using the first one Laughing
like i said not likely to be good and now i have sore fingers
thats what i get for not picking up a guitar for last 12 months
so please excuse the playing. Embarassed
anyway the time machine with pan is the only effect added bar some compression and a fender twin amp simulator to get something like a tone
the guitar's used is my DIY custom deep purple flying V
delay time is set to about the max i would go to before it all goes to mud
same with the regen i could maybe have added CV to a few things but i figured you were after a more straight echo effect
cheers
Denis


guitar thru the Time Machine.mp3
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StephenGiles



Joined: Apr 17, 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

diablojoy wrote:
Ok Stephen hope this will surfice
did about a eleventy takes and of course ended up using the first one Laughing
like i said not likely to be good and now i have sore fingers
thats what i get for not picking up a guitar for last 12 months
so please excuse the playing. Embarassed
anyway the time machine with pan is the only effect added bar some compression and a fender twin amp simulator to get something like a tone
the guitar's used is my DIY custom deep purple flying V
delay time is set to about the max i would go to before it all goes to mud
same with the regen i could maybe have added CV to a few things but i figured you were after a more straight echo effect
cheers
Denis


Excellent, many thanks that sounds wonderful. I can sympathise totally with the sore fingers!!

Last edited by StephenGiles on Thu Mar 01, 2012 8:43 am; edited 1 time in total
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Dhamaryder



Joined: Jan 21, 2011
Posts: 14
Location: Cincinnati

PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 2:58 pm    Post subject: blacet time machine parts Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm starting to populate my board and am finding everything ok except I don't know how to find those Resistor Networks. I found the resistor network section on Mouser but then I don't know what to look for after that. Can anyone give me a hand?
thanks,
steve
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davebr



Joined: Jun 09, 2007
Posts: 185
Location: portland, or

PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 3:53 pm    Post subject: Re: blacet time machine parts Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Dhamaryder wrote:
I'm starting to populate my board and am finding everything ok except I don't know how to find those Resistor Networks. I found the resistor network section on Mouser but then I don't know what to look for after that. Can anyone give me a hand?
thanks,
steve

There is a Mouser BOM on my Time Machine Page http://modularsynthesis.com/blacet/timemachine/timemachine.htm

This is for the 5U board and it has been but I think the part numbers should still be OK.

Dave
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synthcube



Joined: Dec 21, 2011
Posts: 37
Location: boston

PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 12:25 pm    Post subject: MN3005 BBD Analog Delay IC, Time Machine 5U Build
Subject description: the journey to find some legit chips
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Some background on the journey to find some legit MN3005s for the Blacet Time Machine...

As a result of my plan to have a number of large format Blacet Time Machines professionally assembled, I searched for sources of obsolete MN3005 BBD (bucket brigade delay) IC. The history of difficulty sourcing these ICs is well- documented in a number of forums:

http://freestompboxes.org/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=8116&p=90518&hilit=mn3005
http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/forums.html?action=printpage;topic=95978.0
http://www.madbeanpedals.com/forum/forums.html?topic=645.0
http://electro-music.com/forum/post-278819.html
http://www.thegearpage.net/board/archive/forums.html/t-1028286.html

Having invested the time to find these ICs in a meaningful quantity, it was important to provide documentation to overcome concerns about the validity of the ICs. We established a simple process for evaluating them:
1) Buying parts only from suppliers who have a track record of being able to provide genuine MN3005s in the past- no random e-bay buys. These sources are well-documented in the various forum posts as providing legit MN3005s. These ‘recognized’ suppliers act as the first line of defense against fakes. Approximately 3/4 of all orders placed were identified as ‘fakes’ by the supplier before shipping to me.
a. Of eleven ‘named’ suppliers, seven claimed to have stock of the MN3005, only four actually did.
b. The average price I paid across 160+ ICs is about $33 per.
2) Checking each IC against the visual clues that indicate fakes. These are well-documented in various forum posts, and include such items as pin size and length, condition of the top and bottom surfaces, expected logo and date codes, etc. Another good reference is http://www.aeri.com/counterfeits.html
3) Testing each IC against a reference chip by installing it in a testbed Blacet Time Machine- fully documented in youtube videos -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cD6i3osyfZg

a. Acoustic test- video documentation of each IC demonstrated from ‘no delay’ to ‘full delay’ to compare the sound quality against a reference IC
b. Scope test- screenshot .jpg files for each IC for ‘no delay’ and ‘full delay’ states, to compare against the screenshots for the reference IC- using the Oscium scope app for the iPad
c. Visual inspection photos- macro-scale photos top and bottom for each IC

ICs that failed are also documented – like this one. Example here : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIV0KsThoRc&feature=youtube_gdata

I find it useful to show how bad chips act, for comparison with the good chips. For those of you who care, the failure rate is about one in thirteen ICs across my sample set of 160+ chips.

Why the Blacet Time Machine?
It’s a unique module. Synth designers like Blacet (and others like him) deserve to have their good work recognized. The older parts make it special and unlikely to be replicated.

‘Families’ of MN3005 BBD IC
From the 160+ ICs I bought, there appear to be three ‘families.’ I do not have any production documentation from Panasonic nor Matsushita, but the ‘families’ could relate to different production facilities and/or timeframes.
A) ‘Shiny Top’ Triangle Logo ICs- these appear to be the oldest ICs. They have a shiny top surface, and the text is faded relative to the other ICs. They do not have the characteristic edge band around the circumference of the top. These ICs’ have an indent on the top of the chip that is ABOVE the logo and date code. The bottom indent lacks any text.
B) ‘Edge Band’ Triangle Logo ICs- these ICs have the visible edge band around the top of the IC and the triangle logo. These ICs have an indent on the top of the chip that is BELOW the logo and date code. The bottom indent contains some combination of letters and numbers usually two items but sometimes three.
C) ‘Circle Logo’ ICs- these have the logo described by an ‘M’ inside of a rounded box and would appear to be the newest of the ICs in this assortment.
When you listen to the videos, and view the scope traces, you’ll see very little correlation between the families and their resultant sounds; in other words, they appear to be interchangeable across families.

Disclaimers
I have acted in good faith to buy and test these ICs. I am a hobbyist I did this because I enjoy these devices and helping others enjoy them. I am not an engineer and this is not a full-time job. I cannot guarantee that these are ‘genuine’-- only that they work as demonstrated in the videos and pictures. These are electrostatically sensitive devices and although I take ESD precautions, they are subject to damage from static discharge. There is a good reason that highly qualified people like Steve Daniels at smallbearelec.com don’t have them anymore. Some of these are NOS and some are pulls, and you can evaluate that based on the photos and documentation. I have invested my own money in buying and testing a bunch of these Confused .


MN3005Inventory&Testing2.pdf
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synthcube



Joined: Dec 21, 2011
Posts: 37
Location: boston

PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:27 am    Post subject: Time Machines Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

a couple of things for people still interested in Time Machines in large format..

heres a link to a Mouser project pre-populated with TM parts (excluding the rarer bits): (its what I used for my build and based heavily on Dave Brown's list- thanks Dave!)

http://www.mouser.com/ProjectManager/ProjectDetail.aspx?AccessID=8514fd9018



here's a link to full kits available on ebay:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Blacet-Time-Machine-MOTM-Analog-Synthesizer-Module-Full-Kit-/160893350650?pt=Keyboards_MIDI&hash=item2575fdb2fa
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sduck



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Wow - those kits look great! Even the packaging is perfect. I'd buy one in a second if my bank account was a bit fuller than it is now.
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synthcube



Joined: Dec 21, 2011
Posts: 37
Location: boston

PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 1:59 pm    Post subject: Thank you Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks for the feedback
The philosophy is that maybe some sdiyers will prefer to spend time building and playing rather than hunting rare parts for some of these cooler older modules... And some people who care about quality of their own builds might appreciate some time put into kitting, especially if overall cost is lower than the individual buy. It's a lousy business model, and not scalable, but fun and gratifying when you don't know the first thing about circuit design itself Smile
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roglok



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Posts: 163
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

They look great indeed. I assume the PCBs are too big for eurorack?
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elmegil



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yes indeed. The large format PCB is 5.5" x 6.5"

I suppose if you had a realllly deep skiff and mounted it on a diagonal you MIGHT get away with it Wink
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synthcube



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yes... At one time I think Blacet produced a smaller format pcb that was used for Frac and probably easier to convert for euro, maybe with enough retro interest he could be persuaded to produce another batch. But youd have the power conversion issues to sort as well
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befacosynth



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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:

Yes... At one time I think Blacet produced a smaller format PCB that was used for Frac and probably easier to convert for Euro, maybe with enough retro interest he could be persuaded to produce another batch


+1 for me if this happen!

I bought one 5u kit to try to put in in euro format in any possible way (maybe in diagonal i dont know)

also...what about the 12 volts? somebody know if it will be difficult to adapt it?

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