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 Forum index » How-tos » Ambiophonic Sound Reproduction
ambiophonic sound reproduction newbie
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niccolosito



Joined: Oct 07, 2011
Posts: 3
Location: USA

PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 1:54 pm    Post subject: ambiophonic sound reproduction newbie
Subject description: basic start-up directions
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Hello everybody,

I'm an audio enthusiast who doesn't know anything about computers except the usual stuff like internet navigating and other simple tasks. I read about how amazing ambiophonics is and I was intrigued. I've been reading some of the materials and the more I read, the more I get confused. After going through the choices, I decided on the Ambiophonic DSP plug-in. I can use my son's notebook computer that runs on Windows XP Home Edition. Or do I need a full size PC or laptop? Do I need both a USB to S/PDIF converter and digital to analog converter to connect to my home stereo as I seem to understand from reading a tutorial on Ambiophonic.org website? Where do I connect them? All I can read on ambiophonic sites are descriptions of how great it is but I can't find direct, straightforward, step by step instructions on how to do it. I understand all this is simple to computer-savvy enthusiasts but I'm sure I'm not the only person who needs simpler and step by step guidance to install and enjoy the technology. Can anybody help?
Thank you.

Regards,
Nicco
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mosc
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi, Nicco. welcome to electro-music.com

Congrats on picking up the AmbiophonicDSP. You are going to love it.

What you want to do is very doable. There are multiple ways to proceed. I hope this isn't to much computer geek stuff. If so let me know. However, if you are an audio enthusiast, then you will get more out of your hobby by learning how to get the most out of your computer.

I suggest you get an audio interface for your netbook. The Behringer UCA-202 will work. It does have an optical audio out you can connect direct to your audio receiver. You can hook up your external CD player to it via the RCA inputs, so for about $40 bucks, you will be all set. I have two of these and the audio quality is acceptable. In the future you may want to upgrade to an RME Babyface interface, but that costs much more.

I think you should download Winamp on your computer. The following is taken from the instructions that are included in your download package.

Installing: AmbiophonicDSP in your PC player...

Winamp is a free program that play media files on
your Windows computer – CDs, wav, mp3, ogg, and others, video as well
as audio. You must have Winamp installed on your PC and have at least
one VST plug-in (.dll file extension). To get Winamp, go here: http://www.winamp.com/ and follow the installation instructions.

To install any VST plug-in.. in this case the AmbiophonicDSP:

1) Purchase & download AmbiophonicDSP at www.electro-music.com

2) Download and install the Winamp VST Bridge plug-in, available free
at http://www.winamp.com/plugin/vst-winamp-bridge/146317

3) In Winamp, click Options > Preferences > Plug-ins > DSP/Effect.

4) Highlight VST Host DSP, then click Configure active plug-in at the
bottom of the Preferences window

5) In the pop-up that appears, left-click in the little text box to the right
of VST Plugin, and select Load DLL

6) Using the pop-up file browser, select your AmbioDSP VST plug-in.
Voila, the VST plug-in loads and its control panel appears on-screen.

If you do get a Behringer USB interface, you must follow the installation instructions that come with it. It's really very easy to install. If I remember correctly, it becomes the default interface for your computer when you install it. Therefore, everything will go out of the Beheringer.

Since you want to play your CDs on an external CD player, you'll have to tell Winamp to use your audio interface's input. This is easy, but not intuitive.

In Winamp, click File -> Play URL

A pop up window will open. Type in linein:// and click Open

Now, your expernal CD player will go through Winamp and the Ambiophonic DSP plugin.

Now, you may say, "Why do I need to install Winamp if I never want to play mp3s or other files on my computer?". The answer is, you don't, but I've found it is the simplest and most reliable way to do it. Besides, you can use the AmbiophonicDSP with internet radio stations, YouTube, and all kinds of stuff. But, for completeness, you can go the non-Winamp method with Savihost, http://www.hermannseib.com/english/savihost.htm - you should try Winamp first though, to get your computer chops up. Smile

If you have questions, please post them here. I'm sure your questions will be helpful to others.

Happy listening...

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niccolosito



Joined: Oct 07, 2011
Posts: 3
Location: USA

PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi Howard,

Thanks for taking time to assist me. My son has installed the VST file but I have a few more questions for you. My pre-amp is analog and has RCA in/outputs so I can't connect the Behringer UCA 202's optical output to it as you suggested. You also wrote that the 202's audio quality is acceptable and from where we're coming from, we're talking about realistic, you are there sound quality in the first place and acceptable quality is not enough. What we're trying to do is improve the sound, not degrade it. Assuming I have no other choice in my price range(similar to the 202's), how do I then make my connections? I'm imagining connecting the 202's USB to my netbook, connect the cd player's RCA outputs to in 202's inputs, and connecting the 202's RCA outs to the pre-amp, which inputs I'm not sure of. Can you suggest an interface that makes sense in terms of cost and effect relative to my purpose?
If I seem confused to you, I'm telling you I am! I've been all over Amazon.com looking at converters/interfaces. This all seems so complicated to me but I really want to experience ambiophonics.
Thanks and I hope you can help me resolve things so I can get started.

Regards,
Nicco
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mosc
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

IMHO, the Berhinger USB interfaces are fine. I use them for listening to music myself. I don't like them for use with my performance set up because they don't handle overloads very well, but if you are just playing CDs, they will never overload. Get one. As far as I can tell, the 202 and the 222 are the same except that you get EnergyXT, a music production program, with the 222. For listening to CDs, that will not be of any value to you.

Yes, you have the hookup right. Plug the output of the USB audio interface into any unused input on your amplifier (AUX, CD, etc). The only one that won't work well is the phono input.

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niccolosito



Joined: Oct 07, 2011
Posts: 3
Location: USA

PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hello Howard,

With your help, I finally was able to figure out how to make it work. And it does work as advertised! As I thought, ambiophonics sounds similar to Carver sonic holography but I would call it a modern or advanced version of the latter as the Ambio effect can be adjusted according to one's taste, in addition to the pre-sets. The sound improvement, compared to regular stereo, is beyond description that it makes me wonder why ambiophonics, or sonic holography, hasn't gained the attention and acclaim that it deserves. But I think all this will change if tech people like you can come up with a simple plug and play hardware that regular consumers can install in their pre-amps or receivers.
One thing I noticed was the volume being lower when using the plug-in. Say I'd listen at 9:00 position with SH, I'd have to turn up to 11:00 position with Ambio to get the same sound level. Not really something that bothers me; just makes me wonder if I messed up with something somewhere.
BTW, you're right, the Behringer U202 was more than up to the task. I'm still unable to connect my regular cd player to the arrangement. I'd plug it to the RCA input on the 202 and nothing happens. Maybe I can try a cheap cd driver from Amazon that connects to my netbook by USB and see if it works.
Summing up, I really love your plug-in and I can say it's the best product I've ever bought for ten bucks!
Thank you.

Regards,
Nicco
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elektro80
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

For the living room stereo system, something like the Beresford TC-7520 will work nicely. The audio quality is brilliant and the device has several inputs and a source selector.

http://www.beresford.me/PP/Caiman__DAC.html

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elektro80
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Idea

As for the CD player.. is the idea to:

1. simply connect it to the same DAC and then route a plain nice stereo signal out of the DAC..

or
2. do you want to have the PC process the signal and then output processed signal from the DAC

???

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mosc
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Here's all you need to connect your cd player thru the Behringer USB interface:

In Winamp, click File -> Play URL

A pop up window will open. Type in linein:// and click Open

Now, your expernal CD player will go through Winamp and the Ambiophonic DSP plugin.

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mosc
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

elektro80 wrote:
Idea

As for the CD player.. is the idea to:

1. simply connect it to the same DAC and then route a plain nice stereo signal out of the DAC..

or
2. do you want to have the PC process the signal and then output processed signal from the DAC


2 - So, there is no need for a dedicated DAC, just the Behringer USB audio interface...

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elektro80
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 5:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yes, that should do it. The Behringer interface is just fine.


It has a digital output as well and can be connected to devices like the Beresford. However, the audio quality the 202 delivers is absolutely OK and more than acceptable so the only real enhancement a device like the Beresford will add is the input selector and a more beefy headphone amp. Yes, and of course it also adds a touch of the british audiophile cottage industry. Hard to say if that is a good thing or not. scratch

niccolosito - As for calling the 202 acceptable, that basically means it compares very well to high end professional audio interfaces. It does not mean that it barely copes. Very Happy

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audiodef



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 5:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Where can I download the ambiophonic DSP plugin? How much does it cost? Is there a free demo (I use Linux only and have a policy of never buying anything unless there's a demo, so I know it works)?
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elektro80
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 5:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Windows only.


http://electro-music.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/114

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DW



Joined: Jul 23, 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

audiodef wrote:
Where can I download the ambiophonic DSP plugin? How much does it cost? Is there a free demo (I use Linux only and have a policy of never buying anything unless there's a demo, so I know it works)?


Linux people have been known to use jconvolver.
There is a filter (early Choueiri) built in
jconvolver-0.9.1.tar.bz2\jconvolver-0.9.1.tar\jconvolver-0.9.1\config-files\xtalk-cancel\

Or try my new HYBRID filter listed on http://www.ambiophonics.org/ as Wareing Impulse Responses

Linux Jconvolver:

http://kokkinizita.linuxaudio.org/linuxaudio/index.html

Example config. files suggested by third parties;

/convolver/new 2 2 1024 4096
/impulse/read 1 1 1 0 0 0 1 David_Wareing3_Left.wav
/impulse/read 1 2 1 0 0 0 2 David_Wareing3_Left.wav
/impulse/read 2 1 1 0 0 0 1 David_Wareing3_Right.wav
/impulse/read 2 2 1 0 0 0 2 David_Wareing3_Right.wav

or

/impulse/read 1 1 0.5 0 0 0 1 David_Wareing3_Left.wav
/impulse/read 1 2 0.5 0 0 0 2 David_Wareing3_Left.wav
/impulse/copy 2 1 1 2
/impulse/copy 2 2 1 1

Note gain reduced to avoid possible clipping.
Also, in the case of the present filters, the Right and Left are the same, but with the two channels within interchanged.

I have not used jconvolver myself. I have my own VST plugin XTC convolver.

David Wareing.
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audiodef



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 6:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I regularly run "Windows" VST's in my Linux DAW. They actually only rarely do not work, and those that did worked when I had a 32-bit system and don't on my current 64-bit system, so it's not even the fact that it's a "Windows" VST that killed it.

So, if there's a demo, I would love to try the one listed on this site.

David, I'll check out yours, too. Smile
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DW



Joined: Jul 23, 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 6:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

audiodef wrote:
I regularly run "Windows" VST's in my Linux DAW. They actually only rarely do not work, and those that did worked when I had a 32-bit system and don't on my current 64-bit system, so it's not even the fact that it's a "Windows" VST that killed it.

So, if there's a demo, I would love to try the one listed on this site.

David, I'll check out yours, too. Smile


Convolver http://convolver.sourceforge.net/
works very well for Windows.
There is a VST version which I had great difficulty to get to give an output initially, but now works fine for me. I built it in to my Synthedit VST Ambiophonic convolver.

The config. file for Convolver and my (public) filters looks like this:


44100 2 2 0
0 0
0 0
C:\Filters\David_Wareing3_Left.wav
0
0.0
0.0
C:\Filters\David_Wareing3_Left.wav
1
0.0
1.0
C:\Filters\David_Wareing3_Left.wav
1
1.0
0.0
C:\Filters\David_Wareing3_Left.wav
0
1.0
1.0

Note that here I am only using one filter as these particular filters are symmetrical. -DW
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DW



Joined: Jul 23, 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

audiodef wrote:
I regularly run "Windows" VST's in my Linux DAW. They actually only rarely do not work, and those that did worked when I had a 32-bit system and don't on my current 64-bit system, so it's not even the fact that it's a "Windows" VST that killed it.

So, if there's a demo, I would love to try the one listed on this site.

David, I'll check out yours, too. Smile


I think the only demo of a pre-processed file I can offer now is from one of Tom Danley's excelent recordings that I nicked from http://www.danleysoundlabs.com/technical downloads.html

For speakers nearfield at about +/- 7.5 degrees.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=L0EZ2QU1
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mosc
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Try this one Audiodef.

http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-27871.html

Free, but not as good as the one the is for sale. Still, it will give you the idea and it is more flrxible than a convolver.

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audiodef



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 5:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks, Howard, I'll give that a try. Smile
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DW



Joined: Jul 23, 2011
Posts: 12
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 7:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

[quote="niccolosito"]
One thing I noticed was the volume being lower when using the plug-in. Say I'd listen at 9:00 position with SH, I'd have to turn up to 11:00 position with Ambio to get the same sound level. Not really something that bothers me; just makes me wonder if I messed up with something somewhere.

This is normal. The speakers have to be driven harder (for off-axis sounds) to get the same perceived sound level at the ears. This is because they are driven with opposite phase to achieve the cancellation. The internal gain has to be reduced to avoid possible clipping of these off-axis sounds, particularly bass. It is a problem for small speakers such as the Jambox.

http://forums.jawbone.com/t5/JAMBOX/LiveAudio-is-Quiet/td-p/11716
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STC



Joined: Nov 24, 2014
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Location: Malaysia

PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 11:39 pm    Post subject: AmbiophonicsDSP
Subject description: Jriver and rear speakers
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Hello to all,

I have been using Ambiophonics setup with front and rear speakers. My current setup is using the hardware version (two Miniambios) but I find AmbiophonicDSP with JRiver gives me better control when it comes to some pop recordings. However, I cannot use the VST plugin to play the rear channels with different settings.

Is there anyway to use AmbiophonicsDSP with JRiver connected to Mytek DAC to play the rear speakers with different settings?

Thanx in advance.
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