electro-music.com   Dedicated to experimental electro-acoustic
and electronic music
 
    Front Page  |  Articles  |  Radio
 |  Media  |  Forum  |  Wiki  |  Links  |  Store
Forum with support of Syndicator RSS
 FAQFAQ   CalendarCalendar   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   LinksLinks
 RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in  Chat RoomChat Room 
Live streaming at radio.electro-music.com

  host / artist show at your time
  PHOBoS presents Sim Biosys (EM mix)
  PHOBoS Tales of the Golden Teacher
  PHOBoS presents Music by Hrastprogrammer (feat. Terence McKenna)
  Faux Pas Quartet and friends Music From Last Thursday
Please visit the chat
 Forum index » Discussion » Composition
Presets vs Custom sounds - your thoughts?
Post new topic   Reply to topic Moderators: elektro80
Page 3 of 3 [71 Posts]
View unread posts
View new posts in the last week
Mark the topic unread :: View previous topic :: View next topic
Goto page: Previous 1, 2, 3
Author Message
A E J O T Z



Joined: Aug 14, 2011
Posts: 177
Location: St. Louis
Audio files: 66

PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

My only criteria for sounds is: do I like them and do they inspire a new melodic or rhythmic line?

Noodling with presets that sound good to me has been the starting point for lots of my music. But so has noodling with "tweaked" presets or sounds I created from scratch.

In other words, if any sound launches ideas, then it's a good sound.

Lately I don't like the sound of traditional instruments (piano, guitar, etc). Other than that, I'll use anything. I'm not proud.

_________________
pronounced "A-Jotz"
retro-futurism now
electronics = magic
http://aejotz.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
laura woodswalker



Joined: Oct 06, 2007
Posts: 419
Location: valley forge pa
Audio files: 10

PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 4:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Freds 1030 wrote:
Interesting...

I always believed that part of composing electronic music is working with sound and creating new sounds, especially in more experimental music.

Also, if I hear music where the main focus is on melodies and harmonies I'm not bothered by presets because sound is not the point of the composition. On the other hand, if I hear an atmospheric piece, for example, and I recognize a few of the patches I'm turned off.


hmm, interesting thread, I'm kind of new in electronica so I don't know all of the finer points of sound design such as FM, PWM, etc. So I usually use a patch that I like, although I like to use filters & delay, the 'bread & butter" effects. I can modify the patches, but if I try to design a sound from scratch, it usually doesn't sound too good.

I think it is possible to create awesome-sounding music without necessarily 'reinventing the wheel" all the time, just as musicians in other genres are using the same old tired-out 6-strings and remo-head drums and yet creating something original.

I don't think there are rigid divisions between definitions & types of music & what they 'should' contain. I do think that Composition is the bottom line. It should be a listenable piece of music. If you create a sound, you still should "do something with it."

I have heard performances that are interesting for about 3 minutes because they use unusual sounds, but there doesn't seem to be any sort of composition, no rhythm, it doesn't go anywhere.

_________________
The most important music equipment is what's in front of the instrument.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Patchmouse



Joined: Sep 27, 2006
Posts: 140
Location: London

PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 9:18 am    Post subject: Re: Presets vs Custom sounds - your thoughts? Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Freds 1030 wrote:
What are your thoughts about composing using factory presets vs custom patches?
I know is a bit of a generic question and for different styles there might be different "standards", but I'm curious to hear people thoughts on this.

In my opinion the sounds are part of the composition and using a default sound or loop is almost like cheating, but that might because my background and the style of music I compose.
I do think that your pallet is like a little universe you create, so at the end your music has more personality. Then again, I've been guilty of using factory loops and synth patches when working again a tight deadline (on the film scoring world).


I have no qualms about using anything, preset, sample, or whatever, if it sounds right for the piece use it. I like using presets a lot lately, because you can take the piss with them, referencing things in a very ironic way, I like that a lot, but sometimes people get it, and sometimes not, this all started way back with samples, and people using them to say "hey ! this is where were coming from!" in an obvious way. I like it all, you get it in classical music, the piano and the violin have preset sounds ! no one ever accuses those people of being "cliched" Smile

Patchmouse.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
A E J O T Z



Joined: Aug 14, 2011
Posts: 177
Location: St. Louis
Audio files: 66

PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I just learned something that makes me want a Mac computer.

The computer-resident sound editor for the MicroKorg is the same for Mac and PC... except that the Mac version has a randomizer!!!

When you activate the randomizer it randomly selects settings for all the parameters on the MK!!!!!!

I want that!!!

It would be a blast to do tracks using completely unpredictable sounds!!

(The closest I've gotten to this so far is when my cat walks across my computer keyboard when I'm editing sounds.)

_________________
pronounced "A-Jotz"
retro-futurism now
electronics = magic
http://aejotz.com

Last edited by A E J O T Z on Tue Oct 16, 2012 5:52 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Patchmouse



Joined: Sep 27, 2006
Posts: 140
Location: London

PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 12:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

A E J O T Z wrote:
I just learned something that makes me want a Mac computer.

The computer-resident sound editor for the MicroKorg is the same for Mac and PC... except that the Mac version has a randomizer!!!

When you activate the randomizer it randomly selects settings for all the parameters on the MK!!!!!!

I want that!!!

It would be a blast to do tracks using completely unpredictable sounds!!

(The closest I've gotten to this so far is when my cat walks across my computer keyboard then I'm editing sounds.)


I also thought this was a good idea, randomizing patches. I was never able to do it with hardware, and for some reason it wasn't on the priority list of any manufacture I knew of. Until, I got Reaktor, there are a few synth's in there, and ones made by third parties, that have a randomize button as standard. I was a great fan of the DX7, and when I got FM7 it was great to find the randomize feature on that as well. However, I haven't used it as much as I thought I would, the results are rarely "better" than the patch I was working on.
What I "WOULD" like, is a program that actually makes new music from existing tracks, wouldn't it be great to be able to put two songs into a program and see them morph into something that the computer thought was a good idea, a new genre, now that would be a step forward. The really difficult stuff is still unattainable, it seems. This could open up a whole new can of worms, and put a lot of us out of business, what business there is left anyway !

Patchmouse.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
emdot_ambient



Joined: Nov 22, 2009
Posts: 669
Location: Frederick, MD

PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mosc wrote:
I'm older than presets.

You ain't the only one!




I'll tell you one preset sound I'm TOTALLY sick of hearing: Violins.

Especially in film scores.

STOP THE VIOLINS IN MOVIES!

_________________
Looking for a certain ratio since 1978
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Keysandslots



Joined: Aug 18, 2006
Posts: 266
Location: Mississauga, Ontario

PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm kinda sick of hearing "pads" in general. Most keyboard players use too many notes, voiced in close clusters, and out comes a bunch of mud that covers everything else up. It's even worse in a live situation, because the natural reverb makes mud even muddier.

It is probably a good idea to stay away from certain presets, at least in my opinion. That Van Halen Jump pad from the Oberheim OB-X (I think) is one. The Korg Wavestation shows up in all sorts of video-related stuff now, I hear it alot on TV shows in particular, and it is another synth with cool sounds that have been ruined by over-use. I have owned both of those synths in the past, both long gone now.

I also think there is too much music in movies and TV now-a-days. Sometimes it would be nice to have a bit of silence, or just some ambient or room tones.

Randy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
laura woodswalker



Joined: Oct 06, 2007
Posts: 419
Location: valley forge pa
Audio files: 10

PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

QUOTE I'm kinda sick of hearing "pads" in general

And the person who said they were sick of Violins, and music in general.

Yeah... I'm sick of film scores, they are always so cliche!! Frinstance the Harry Potter films, here's all this weird stuff happening & there is the usual orchestral score. And guess what, Harry comes face to face with Voldemort & there's no music/soundtrack at all!!!

Think how much cooler a fantasy or SF movie would be with truly 'fantasy' type of music, something weird and wonderful like the stuff you hear at E-M.

Or else it's punk rock with Vampires.

When some of the stuff I heard at E-M would have been such great atmospheric movie music!

_________________
The most important music equipment is what's in front of the instrument.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Antimon



Joined: Jan 18, 2005
Posts: 3694
Location: Sweden
Audio files: 269
G2 patch files: 96

PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

laura woodswalker wrote:

Yeah... I'm sick of film scores, they are always so cliche!! Frinstance the Harry Potter films, here's all this weird stuff happening & there is the usual orchestral score. And guess what, Harry comes face to face with Voldemort & there's no music/soundtrack at all!!!

Think how much cooler a fantasy or SF movie would be with truly 'fantasy' type of music, something weird and wonderful like the stuff you hear at E-M.

Or else it's punk rock with Vampires.

When some of the stuff I heard at E-M would have been such great atmospheric movie music!


+1

_________________
Antimon's Window
@soundcloud @Flattr home - you can't explain music
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Patchmouse



Joined: Sep 27, 2006
Posts: 140
Location: London

PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 1:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

[quote="emdot_ambient"]
mosc wrote:


STOP THE VIOLINS IN MOVIES!


Yes ! and stop the brass as well, and while your at it, just stop Hollywood.

Patchmouse.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mosc
Site Admin


Joined: Jan 31, 2003
Posts: 17611
Location: Allentown, PA
Audio files: 125
G2 patch files: 60

PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

"Bernard Hermann"
I think that film scores are pretty hard to take for a lot of musicians because the musicality is subservient to the drama. But, there are fortunately a few exceptions.

Two of my favorite film scores are by Bernard Hermann.

    The Day The Earth Stood Still (1950s version)

    Vertigo


Interesting that recently a group of film critics in England changed their vote on the best movie of all time from Citizen Cane to Vertigo. No one mentioned that both of those films have scores by Bernard Hermann. Sometimes the score makes the movie.

_________________
--Howard
my music and other stuff
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address
Patchmouse



Joined: Sep 27, 2006
Posts: 140
Location: London

PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 1:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Can you imagine Blade Runner without the music ? Or 2001...

I like a lot of the films produced by British Transport Films, they are absolute gems as far a music is concerned, check-out the beginning of "Terminus" But some of my favourite films don't actually have any music, those by Jacque Tati just have sound effects.

I don't like Hollywood, or mainstream movies anymore, full stop, end of story. They give me nothing, they are a manifestation of all that is wrong with the film industry, America, and peoples attitudes to what exactly telling a story is all about, or, is not about, in this case.

My favourite film composers....

Mark Isham.

Mark Isham...and...

Mark Isham.


Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
audiodef



Joined: Sep 05, 2011
Posts: 628
Location: Behind you
Audio files: 44

PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Patchmouse wrote:

I don't like Hollywood, or mainstream movies anymore, full stop, end of story. They give me nothing, they are a manifestation of all that is wrong with the film industry, America, and peoples attitudes to what exactly telling a story is all about, or, is not about, in this case.



Yep. Same here. Whenever I want to watch a movie that came out of Hollywood, if there is a director's cut, I opt for that. First time I watched "The Butterfly Effect", I watched the DC and thought it was a good movie. Later, I watched the theatrical ending and wanted to stab my eyes out.

_________________
Audiodef
Synthetronica
Gentoo Studio
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Patchmouse



Joined: Sep 27, 2006
Posts: 140
Location: London

PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 3:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I quite fancied going to see "On The Road" but decided not to. I heard a trailer for it and it sounded just like all the other over produced, over acted rubbish that is Hollywood these days. Why is everyone shouting ? why is there "constant" music ? why are the scenes cut to satisfy somebody who has the attention span of a nanosecond ? Plus, there are a lot of very overrated actors out there, people om multimillion dollar wages for doing sod all. Acting when it succeeds sounds and looks like real life, period. I can always tell when there is a film review on my radio simply becasue it sounds like someone "acting" !!!! Ad to all this the current rage for CGI, shoot-em-up's, and general crap, the last things that seems to be on the agenda is a good story and great acting. The digital revolution as far as cheap video and film equipment goes is the best thing that's ever happened to this industry, hopefully it will create a lot of cheap and interesting productions by aspiring film makers who actually have some talent, rather than just a huge budget.

Patchmouse.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
nowwearesix1980



Joined: Apr 02, 2013
Posts: 1
Location: Los Angeles, CA

PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Patchmouse, I completely agree! I've been watching the walking dead recently and it's fairly entertaining while people are killing zombies, but as soon as the frigging actors open their mouths, nothing but stock phrases and cheap sentiments come out. It's nauseating, particularly since I have had the misfortune of having watched and finished "the wire" not too long ago. I say misfortune because it has no soundtrack at all, is impeccably written, brutally realistic and one of the best acted pieces of drama I have ever seen: in other words, things I could once have tolerated I can no longer tolerate in comparison! Have you heard Jonny Greenwood's soundtrack to There Will Be Blood? In my opinion, it is one of the greatest movie soundtracks ever written. What's your opinion?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
emdot_ambient



Joined: Nov 22, 2009
Posts: 669
Location: Frederick, MD

PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

They're still making movies?
_________________
Looking for a certain ratio since 1978
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Blue Hell
Site Admin


Joined: Apr 03, 2004
Posts: 20517
Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 147
G2 patch files: 318

PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It came alive again: http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-59122.html
_________________
Jan
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Freak's Utopia



Joined: Jul 31, 2013
Posts: 7
Location: Italy

PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2013 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I do consider presets as starting points...
However I always got my best sounds starting from zero,

But

If you are in a hurry and you have to finish that 30s AD soundtrack,
go with the presets.

_________________
Last track:
https://soundcloud.com/freaks-utopia/alienateds-dream-1
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Manuel Marino



Joined: Aug 07, 2013
Posts: 15
Location: Italy

PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 2:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I think that there are songs where you absolutely need to customize the sounds. And other songs where you just need a "preset" because it's that sound that you need and it's useless to try to create something similar if.... it's there!

As example, I need a Wurlitzer. It's there, why I should struggle with the sound editors if I just need that specific sound? Load it on your sampler, and play on your keyboard. That's all!

_________________
Listen to Free Samples from my soundtracks or read Guitar, Bass, Piano and Drums Lessons and News from my Homepage.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
pyrosonic



Joined: Jul 12, 2008
Posts: 379
Location: Kent,Oh. USA

PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

More of what I've done are mods of patches I found here,partially because I'm lazy,partly because I don't have as much time on my hand as I'd like,and partially because I think it's silly to "reinvent the wheel".
Examining other people's patches in the editor is a great way to learn this thing.Sometimes it's really hard to figure out what's going on,but isn't that often the case with learning something?
One thing that I found on here (can't remember right now who did the patch)
was a couple granular synthesis patch's.Even though I've perused the archives I missed them until the author mentioned them in a thread.I had been getting into granular quite a bit using MOTU Machfive3 and was stunned to find out you could do it (although in a limited fashion) on the G2.Nice to have that capability without having the computer with you.
My #1 mod that I do to other people's patches?
ASSIGNING A KNOB TO PATCH VOLUME!
I'm amazed at how many folks don't do this!
It's the quickest way to balance parts if you're only using 2 outs.(well duh)

_________________
http://soundcloud.com/pyrosonic-1
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Pyrosonic/106761076017889
http://www.youtube.com/user/pyrosonic
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Whorlweaver/133469163426410
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
brainvoyager



Joined: Oct 23, 2013
Posts: 26
Location: The Netherlands, Heerhugowaard
Audio files: 3

PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Acoustic Interloper wrote:
.....

There are many forms of electronic music. Not all electronic music is sound design, any more than all acoustic music is instrument design. If one's compositional emphasis is combinatorics for example, algorithmic generation of patterns of sounds with some harmonic or rhythmic interrelationships, and not sound design, then I'd say that generating those patterns using presets is not less creative than generating patterns using congas, kalimbas, a violin, or whatever one has at hand.

.....

What matters is the piece, and its performance.

You are so right in my opinion! If I listen to Beethoven, or Mahler, or Mozart, or Vivaldi, etc, I recognize many instruments all the time. Of course I know that these are acoustic instruments but the principle is the same. So what? I do both.
What matters is the composition, the arrangement and the chosen combination of sounds, whatever sounds that may be. But that's just my opinion. Nothing more and nothing less. Smile

_________________
I don't care about genres, I just make music.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic Moderators: elektro80
Page 3 of 3 [71 Posts]
View unread posts
View new posts in the last week
Goto page: Previous 1, 2, 3
Mark the topic unread :: View previous topic :: View next topic
 Forum index » Discussion » Composition
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
e-m mkii

Please support our site. If you click through and buy from
our affiliate partners, we earn a small commission.


Forum with support of Syndicator RSS
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
Copyright © 2003 through 2009 by electro-music.com - Conditions Of Use