electro-music.com   Dedicated to experimental electro-acoustic
and electronic music
 
    Front Page  |  Articles  |  Radio
 |  Media  |  Forum  |  Wiki  |  Links  |  Store
Forum with support of Syndicator RSS
 FAQFAQ   CalendarCalendar   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   LinksLinks
 RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in  Chat RoomChat Room 
Live streaming at radio.electro-music.com

  host / artist show at your time
  Jez Adventures in Sound
Please visit the chat
 Forum index » Clavia Nord Modular » Nord Modular G2 Discussion
Uh-oh
Post new topic   Reply to topic Moderators: Nord Modular Editors
Page 1 of 1 [10 Posts]
View unread posts
View new posts in the last week
Mark the topic unread :: View previous topic :: View next topic
Author Message
jamos



Joined: Jun 01, 2004
Posts: 470
Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Audio files: 4
G2 patch files: 36

PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:27 pm    Post subject: Uh-oh
Subject description: Is my G2 dying?
Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Just had a strange thing happen.. second time in the past two months, though on a different patch.

Basically: On a couple of patches if I push polyphony too far, the synth will let me create additional voices: but then I get nothing from the output but harsh digital noise. With the perf I'm working on now, 5 voices in one slot are OK, but if I go to 6, chaos. The scary thing is, last night I had it running on 7 with no problem.

Has anyone ever heard of this? I'll upload the perf later. OS 1.4, of course.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Blue Hell
Site Admin


Joined: Apr 03, 2004
Posts: 20514
Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 147
G2 patch files: 318

PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 8:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Interesting Shocked

Yup, I'd like to see a patch for that.

_________________
Jan
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Tim Kleinert



Joined: Mar 12, 2004
Posts: 1027
Location: Zürich, Switzerland
Audio files: 6
G2 patch files: 212

PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Are delay lines involved?

I got hideous noise once, but only sometimes in specific situations. I was able to pinpoint it down to a defective RAM memory chip. Every DSP has its own RAM memory chip for delay stuff. And if a patch has delay lines in its audio path and it (or some of its voices) are allocated to a DSP with faulty RAM, this can produce loud digital garbage. If you reload stuff, or change voice count, it can change or disappear, as the patch is allocated elsewhere.

_________________
beer
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jamos



Joined: Jun 01, 2004
Posts: 470
Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Audio files: 4
G2 patch files: 36

PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

{sigh} I guess there's no point in uploading a patch, since now Welcome G2 exhibits the problem. Polyphony up to 13, fine; polyphony 14 or up, no good. I have recorded the audio output and attached, for what it's worth.

Tim, yes all of these either use delay, reverb, or string oscillators. It sounds like you were able to fix yours - how did you isolate the RAM chip and how did you do the repairs?

How f'ing ironic. My G2s have been basically unused for a year, I sign up to do a noodle installation at an art show as a way to restart my engine and now this happens.


Dying G2.mp3
 Description:
Output from my G2 when polyphony is too high.

Download
 Filename:  Dying G2.mp3
 Filesize:  39.18 KB
 Downloaded:  140 Time(s)

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
varice



Joined: Dec 29, 2004
Posts: 721
Location: Northeastern shore of Toledo Bend
Audio files: 22
G2 patch files: 49

PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 1:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ouch! That sure sounds bad.

Tim was relatively lucky. It turned out that he had a defective RAM chip on the expansion board, much better than a problem with the main board! A replacement expansion board fixed his problem.

Since you hear the problem only when trying to use maximum polyphony, your problem *may* also be on your expansion board. Probably the best way to make sure is to remove your expansion board and then use a test performance patch to force the main board to max DSP cycles *and* max RAM usage. If you’re willing to do this test but need help with a test patch, just let us know.

There may be a way to test your G2 without removing the expansion board, but I am not sure that there is a way to isolate where the fault is (main board or expansion) just by loading a perf.

A quick way to isolate the fault to a RAM chip though would be to remove the delay and reverb modules from the Welcome G2 patch and then check if there is any noise when all voices are sounding at the max poly setting.

Good luck jamos…

_________________
varice
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tim Kleinert



Joined: Mar 12, 2004
Posts: 1027
Location: Zürich, Switzerland
Audio files: 6
G2 patch files: 212

PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 1:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I pinpointed the problem by making a performance with a 2.7 seconds delay line in each VA and FX area, 8 in total. Thus I could see that one of those was generating noise. (It was also interesting that by reloading the performance, the offending delay module often got "shifted around", seems that the DSP assignment has some kind of round-robin type scheme.)
Then I further isolated the issue by removing the expansion board, which made the problem disappear in my case.

As I say, this is only my experience, and in my case it was related to a faulty RAM chip. The performance described above will easily reveal if your problem is the same.

_________________
beer
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jamos



Joined: Jun 01, 2004
Posts: 470
Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Audio files: 4
G2 patch files: 36

PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks, guys. I'll try that patch and possibly pull the expansion card tonight.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
3phase



Joined: Jul 27, 2004
Posts: 1152
Location: Berlin
Audio files: 13
G2 patch files: 138

PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Tim Kleinert wrote:
I pinpointed the problem by making a performance with a 2.7 seconds delay line in each VA and FX area, 8 in total. Thus I could see that one of those was generating noise. (It was also interesting that by reloading the performance, the offending delay module often got "shifted around", seems that the DSP assignment has some kind of round-robin type scheme.)
Then I further isolated the issue by removing the expansion board, which made the problem disappear in my case.

As I say, this is only my experience, and in my case it was related to a faulty RAM chip. The performance described above will easily reveal if your problem is the same.


have you managed to get the ram replaced?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
jamos



Joined: Jun 01, 2004
Posts: 470
Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Audio files: 4
G2 patch files: 36

PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well, bullocks. Poopie. Etc.

I created a test patch (attached), and determined that yes, it is coming from the delay module. I suppose I could have been a bit more rigorous, but I'm going on Tim's idea here. Unlike his case, I found that the failed slot does not move around; it is always the FX area of Slot 1.

The bad news: the problem does not go away when I pull the expansion board. So it is on the main board.

Feces. Fornication!

Time to call Clavia and see if they have any thoughts on repair. Or does anyone else have an idea?


RAM test.prf2
 Description:

Download
 Filename:  RAM test.prf2
 Filesize:  3.32 KB
 Downloaded:  209 Time(s)


Last edited by jamos on Sun Feb 24, 2013 4:36 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Blue Hell
Site Admin


Joined: Apr 03, 2004
Posts: 20514
Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 147
G2 patch files: 318

PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 7:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jamos wrote:
Or does anyone else have an idea?


Find a workplace where they have a stereo microscope (or good young eyes Wink ) and a proper heat gun ... as most likely it is bad solder joint on one of the SMD parts that worked itself loose .. could be the memory, but could be the DSP too.

If only you'd live nearer I could have a look at it at work here ...

_________________
Jan
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic Moderators: Nord Modular Editors
Page 1 of 1 [10 Posts]
View unread posts
View new posts in the last week
Mark the topic unread :: View previous topic :: View next topic
 Forum index » Clavia Nord Modular » Nord Modular G2 Discussion
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
e-m mkii

Please support our site. If you click through and buy from
our affiliate partners, we earn a small commission.


Forum with support of Syndicator RSS
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
Copyright © 2003 through 2009 by electro-music.com - Conditions Of Use