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 Forum index » Clavia Nord Modular » Nord Modular G2 Discussion
NMG2 Open Source Editor
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3phase



Joined: Jul 27, 2004
Posts: 1152
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

And a list of a few unconvinience factors of the editor that could be optimized.

1) knob move only horizontal.. best mode for laptops in the original editor is the circular mode.

2) you need to click twice to move a module. no direct dragging

3) you cant select multiple modules
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brunov



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ok, you are using a laptop? Maybe that has something todo with the filter driver not working. But maybe we can look into that later on, for now I'm just happy that you want to help out Smile

- I'll put the rotary knob movement on my todo list

- Click twice to start dragging, I put that in on purpose, because I often dragged modules by mistake, whn I really wanted to connect a cable or turn a knob. But that can be made optional

- You should be able to select multiple modules by holding Ctrl down, or by dragging a rectangle over the Module names (left-top corner).


About the patch load calculation, I think I made some progress, by studying the manual again and some experimenting:

Resource 3 (byte 5) represents Internal memory, max 128 bytes.
Resource 10 (byte 20..25) represents RAM, max +- 260000 bytes (256kWord)

This fits for most modules, but there is still a factor missing

So memory calculation should be:

Mem% = max ( (100*R3/128) , (100*R10/260000), (100*R?/?))

And the Cycles, I made a discovery by uprating a module, so a module that has normaly blue output, turns to red output when modulated with a red source, as shown in the picture.

So I think Resource 1 (byte 1,2) and resource 6 (byte 12,13) represent Red Cycles and Resource 2 (byte 3,4) and resource 9 (byte 18,19) represent Blue Cycles.

Don't know why they are put in twice, and don't know exactly what the max values should be. Resource 5 also plays a part in the cyles. So for know I have this formula which comes close:

Cycles% = max( (100*R1/1352 + 100*R2/5000), (100*R5/258) )

So far the patchload.

Last thing I did yesterday was put a new version of the editor on the SourceForge site: v0.26. It contains a new category "Test" which has the blue2red red2blue modules.
Also solved some issues with setting the master clock.


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3phase



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

nice progress..seems to work.. what missing factor in the memory calculation? sofar the formular worked on all the patches i looked into.. can you point me to one where this dont works?
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brunov



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It's the 2Out module, which has no internal memory usage and no RAM usage but the clavia editor shows 0.4% Mem.

What I find really strange is the difference with the 4Out module, which uses no memory at all, according to the clavia editor, and only 0.1 cycles. The 2Out uses 1.7 cycles, so 17x as much cycles.

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3phase



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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 4:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

when its connected or multiple modules are used the 4 out counts more than the 2 out..
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Oh and the Clavia calculations are not perfect either, most likely ...

one can have a 100% patch that works, but there are also 100% patches that do not work ... this may just be a rounding issue ... but seen some odd stuff through the years.

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3phase



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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

brunov wrote:

So I think Resource 1 (byte 1,2) and resource 6 (byte 12,13) represent Red Cycles and Resource 2 (byte 3,4) and resource 9 (byte 18,19) represent Blue Cycles.


i ve some patches where byte 1,2 are not identical with 12,13

and also patches where 3,4 is not identical with 18,19


byte 13 seems to relate to the missing resource..

while byte 1 is identical with byte 12 in most cases , but not all.. byte 2 is not identical with byte 13 when only output modules are used.

byte 9 an 11 seem to be involved in the cycle counting too, at least byte 8 and 10 get higher than zero when cycles go above 100%


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brunov



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PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 3:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

3phase wrote:

i ve some patches where byte 1,2 are not identical with 12,13


I've seen that also, for example with the lfo. There are probably two factors involved that determine the amount of cycles of a patch, each with a certain maximum. Maybe we'll have to find two modules, one that uses more of the resource of byte 1/2 and the other that uses more of 12/13. Than put as much of each module in a patch until you reach the 100% to determine the maximum of the resource.

Sorry for the late reply. I've also been busy with the idea to use SVG graphics for the editor's interface.

I've made a test app. for OSX and Windows in wich SVG graphics can be loaded/tested. You can find it here : http://www.bverhue.nl/SVGControl/Delphi_SVG_control.html

There is a graphic in there called the "animated clock". You can manipulate the clock arms with the mouse. That's a bit like how the G2-modules representations could work.

So I imagine we could make knobs/sliders etc. as SVG graphics and put some of these together on a panel to create the modules. These can will than be linked to the G2 editors application logic using ID's you can assign to graphic parts.


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pstnotpd



Joined: Apr 09, 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 2:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Just to let you know.
I've done some experiments with wine & ndiswrapper on Ubuntu.

I couldn't get the unofficial Wine USB patch to work.

But when I put the clavia driver in ndiswrapper it seems to recognize the G2 when it is connected.

I don't know how to proceed with compiling the NMG2 though. It has been done for OSX so how difficult would it be to get it to compile under linux?
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brunov



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 6:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm not really an expert on Ubuntu/wine but doesn't wine let you run the windows executable on Ubuntu?

If so you wouldn't have to compile anything, just run the .exe file.

I had a version of the sourcecode some time ago that could be compiled for Linux using the Freepascal compiler. And using libusb1.0 I could connect with the G2. But I left it there because I had too many problems with it.

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pstnotpd



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

brunov wrote:
I'm not really an expert on Ubuntu/wine but doesn't wine let you run the windows executable on Ubuntu?


Actually both the Clavia editor and yours work fine in Wine. It's just that they cannot connect to USB because Wine still hasn't got a good solution for using windows drivers (which are kernel mode) in user mode.

I've tried freepascal and lazarus to import your projects, but I'm not really familiar with the project structure so I didn't get it to compile.

As it compiles on OSX it should be possible to get it running on linux too. The G2 is now actually the only reason for me to keep a windows PC alive.....
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brunov



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Maybe you could take a look at the libusb drivers. There are a couple of different versions:

There is a libusb-win32/64 version, a windows driver that one can run in 2 different modes: as a filter driver or as a standalone driver.

Then there is the older libusb1.0 driver that one I've used for linux/osx. I think it was version libusb-1.0.8

Maybe you could do some research if one of these would work in wine. I'm not an expert on drivers either, just trial and error...

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Electromagnetic Wave



Joined: Apr 28, 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 3:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

This is a nice project. Wow! I'm very glad to test it.

Do you think it could be possible to preload a module before to load a patch in the same slot with the NMG2 open source Editor?

If yes, do you think if could be possible to automate the routing (wire) from a preloaded module and a module in the new patch ?

The wire can search for a specific module name to plug in the good module.
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brunov



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PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

[quote="Electromagnetic Wave"I'm very glad to test it.[/quote]

Thanks for the offer. I'm in the proces of rebuilding the user interface, so I can compile it for other operating systems. I haven't had much time to work on the project though, and because of that, I just want to stick to the basic editor functionality for the moment.

But I would like to know why you want functionality like this, I don't really understand your question

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Electromagnetic Wave



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PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I understand, you already make a great job. All of us are so happy about this new open source editor.

It's hard to me to express myself in english but I will try to explain you my idea with an exemple :


We have to use 2 slots at the moment when we need to test many synth or "audio in" patchs with an "effect patch" (reverb, disto, etc..). Same if we use an arpegiator, a step sequencer or another patch to trigger (to test on) many sound/noise patchs. When all 4 slots are already in use, its make me sick to delete a slot to test a new patch.


Now imagine you can preload a module or a "pre patch" before to load a main patch. I think it could be very helpful for other purpose too.

Is it more clear like this brunov? Smile
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 7:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Electromagnetic Wave wrote:
Now imagine you can preload a module or a "pre patch" before to load a main patch. I think it could be very helpful for other purpose too.


Would that be a bit like how a performance (prf file) works, but then with 2 patches in it?

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Electromagnetic Wave



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PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yes, it's like how a performance (.prf file) works but into 1 patch (.pch2). The 'pre patch" need to be locked into the slot when I select another patch to go on this slot.
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brunov



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PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I think it would be technically possible, because it's also possible to copy/paste parts of a patch into the same slot or into another slot.

It might get difficult if you also want to autmatically connect these two patch-parts with cables.

Maybe this could be done if your prepatch has a module in it, that is cabled up and your new patch also contains only one of this module or a similar one. So if you load the new patch, it replaces it's module with the one already existing and cabled up in your prepatch.

Another problem could be that you hit max cpu quite often.

So maybe could be done, but I wonder how many patches would be ready to go after loading like this.

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Electromagnetic Wave



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PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2013 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
I think it would be technically possible, because it's also possible to copy/paste parts of a patch into the same slot or into another slot.

Smile

Quote:
So maybe could be done, but I wonder how many patches would be ready to go after loading like this.


You mean about hit max cpu ? or how many patchs can be routing to another one with an automate process ?

My goal is to use the G2 for live performance on stage without other gear. This is why all 4 slots are eveytime in use. I will probably buy just an Korg ESX to use as a MIDI sequencer. I don't realy feel this machine but the ESX is very portable. I love the old Yamaha RS 7000 but this one is too big to keep with me on the road.

If Im the only one to want this function, forget that! This is a suggestion. I'll find a workaround or probably buy another G2 (an engine) Smile
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BethanyFerrell



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PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 7:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

brunov wrote:
I'm in the proces of rebuilding the user interface, so I can compile it for other operating systems.

Bruno, hi. I'm not a Nord owner, but I am interested in the interactive SVG renderer you developed for this project. After trying the demo you have on sourceforge, I googled and found this thread.

I've sent a PM, but I don't know whether you'll notice that so I'm replying here too (and hoping you have email notifications turned on). Please check your PMs and let me know whether you're interested.

Thanks!

[edited to add] Bruno contacted me and everything is fine.
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brunov



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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Maybe for someone else interested in the svg-control, the source code will be open source, bsd-licence, but I'm going to ask a small fee for the hours I put in. I was setting up my own webspace for that, but Bethany beat me to it Smile
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brunov



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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:

If Im the only one to want this function, forget that!


Maybe not exactly what you asked for, but something that I might be able to do relatively easy is a "patch buffer" function. I made a mock up as to illustrate this.

So with the knob "Add patches" you can load a selection of patches from disk.

Knob "VA to clipboard" you can select the VA part of a buffered patch and put in on the clipboard. So the you can past this in one of the active patches in the 4 slots.

Knob "FX to cliboard" does the same for the FX patch part.

Then you could als make a specific selection of a patch from the buffer, put in the clipboard and paste in in an active patch.

Or you could just load the whole patch in a selected slot with button "Load patch".

This could also be usefull if you build your patches from building blocks.


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Electromagnetic Wave



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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

.
..........Surprised

Quote:
This could also be usefull if you build your patches from building blocks.


Yes! This is exactly what Im doing since I got my G2 last week. Can you save the setting from each module with your "patch buffer" ?


I think about another function to add on the open source editor. I cannot find this one in the documentation. A function to highlight all x same modules in a .pch or .prf. It's could be work like this :

Put the mouse over x module in the patch or from the "insert menu" with a keyboard shortcut . After all same modules into the .pch or the .prf will be highlighted.

Very useful if you build your patches from complex building blocks then you need to know if the patch have allready 1/2 - 3/4 Bus modules into a big .prf. Same when you search for the ClkGen into a patch. Or when the module name you search is edited, it's could be helpfull too.


This one is into my dream : Since you find new modules from the OS.... I dream about a hidden : BUS 5/6 - 7/8. Smile
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G2Psy



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PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 12:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Is there any chance the editor could be compiled for iPad? I use the G2 less and less because I have to fire up the computer.

B
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brunov



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PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The source probably will compile for iOS, but the biggest question is if it is possible to set up direct USB communication with the G2.

Don't have n ipad myself, but maybe someone knows of an example of a USB device connected to ipad other than basic external memory access, hopefully using libusb?

For example, are there other synth's out there that you can control using an ipad and a direct usb connection?

Bruno.

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