electro-music.com   Dedicated to experimental electro-acoustic
and electronic music
 
    Front Page  |  Articles  |  Radio
 |  Media  |  Forum  |  Wiki  |  Links  |  Store
Forum with support of Syndicator RSS
 FAQFAQ   CalendarCalendar   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   LinksLinks
 RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in  Chat RoomChat Room 
Live streaming at radio.electro-music.com

  host / artist show at your time
  Rob Adventures in Sound
Please visit the chat
 Forum index » Instruments and Equipment » General Discussion
Casio CZ-5000 vs VZ8m question..
Post new topic   Reply to topic
Page 1 of 1 [13 Posts]
View unread posts
View new posts in the last week
Mark the topic unread :: View previous topic :: View next topic
Author Message
patrickvf1976



Joined: Aug 08, 2011
Posts: 182
Location: Gig Harbor

PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 2:45 pm    Post subject: Casio CZ-5000 vs VZ8m question.. Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Saw two ads - CZ5000 for $200 and VZ8m for $89. I always wanted the CZ5000 but at $209.88 it seems a bit much, even with free shipping. The VZ goes for $89 and I could pick it up by tomorrow.. Now besides the price and accessibility, I guess I'm looking for reasons to go for or hold back on either one.. here's what I'm struggling with.. I used to have a CZ101 but had to sell it when I was short on cash, so I'm familiar with PD synthesis and how these synths are programmed, but I also wanted to try out a VZ kind of synth but I'd rather prefer VZ1/10m because of it's graphic display. I like the PD sound but IPD seems so much more sophisticated but also much more difficult to program. The CZ5000 has a neat 8 track sequencer with a nice albeit monophonic only continuous loop feature that makes it useful for live play, and the synth is much easier to program and with stacking you still get 4x polyphony out of it compared to the 1.5 monophonic layering on the CZ101. Stacking up the features and drawbacks between the CZ5000 and VZ8m.. I still can't make up my mind. If I could afford it I would get em both but unfortunately I can't. Hope someone can sway me to one or another direction before they're both gone.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
modulator_esp
Stream Operator


Joined: Feb 04, 2005
Posts: 2345
Location: Nottingham, UK
Audio files: 195
G2 patch files: 1

PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

If you liked the sound of the CZ-101 go for the CZ-5000 as iPD sounds a lot more like FM than PD in my opinion
_________________
Jez
music | adventures in sound
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Venn Diagram



Joined: Sep 29, 2013
Posts: 31
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

modulator_esp wrote:
If you liked the sound of the CZ-101 go for the CZ-5000 as iPD sounds a lot more like FM than PD in my opinion



The VZ is also a bitch to program in comparison.

_________________
Autocorrect is becoming my new enema .......

http://venndiagram.ca

https://soundcloud.com/venndigram

https://myspace.com/venndiagram
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
MusicMan11712



Joined: Aug 08, 2009
Posts: 742
Location: Upstate New York USA
Audio files: 148

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I am familiar with both the CZ-5000 and the VZ-8m. What kind of musics do you want to do? What kinds of sounds do you want? What kind of performance modality would you want to use with it?

How important is the sequencer?

Are you interested in creating wild and crazy sounds, or are you just interested in using classic CZ sounds?

$89 for a VZ-8m in 100% working condition (no issues) seems to be a good deal, but it really depends on how you want to use it. The VZ-1 will be considerably more expensive.

If you are using a PC and can run Steem (Atari emulation), there used to be a VZ editor around--not sure if it was hybrid arts or another software maker.

Steve
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Venn Diagram



Joined: Sep 29, 2013
Posts: 31
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It was always a pity that Casio left the pro synth market back in the day - I think if they had married the CZ with more complex waveforms, multi-mode filters, fx engine and interface much like a JD800 with true 64 note polyphony and 16 part multi operation it would have been wonderful.
In essence we've seen what the Yamaha SY85 tech (AWM2) has developed into over the course of 20 years. Something we never got the luxury of with Casio.
The FZ-10M was one of my first ever samplers and it was a great bit of kit back in the day, with the SH-09, CZ1000 and Sequential Six Track being the first 3 synths I ever owned and used.

_________________
Autocorrect is becoming my new enema .......

http://venndiagram.ca

https://soundcloud.com/venndigram

https://myspace.com/venndiagram
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
patrickvf1976



Joined: Aug 08, 2011
Posts: 182
Location: Gig Harbor

PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Just wanted to give you all an update - I went for the Casio CZ-5000 but I kind of regret not going for a CZ 1 instead for it has velocity, which can be modulated with the mod wheel thus allowing real time changes in the PD timbre, but the nifty little sequencer kind of makes up for it.

MusicMan - I'm into electronic music but I haven't settled for a particular style yet (and don't think I ever will). At this point it's all experimental but to give you an idea of what I do, picture Justice, Depeche Mode and Kraftwerk having a party at Jarre's place, and then comes Trent Reznor crashing the party.
Thanks for the hint about the editor for the VZ, but since I went for the CZ 5000 I'm set for now, but I'm still keeping my eyes peeled for another cheap VZ (the other one's gone Sad)

Venn - I think Casio did something like what Yamaha did but they called it IXA and they used that in the CTK-1000, which had some limited sound editing capabilities. But then it wasn't really a "professional" synth but an advanced table hooter.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
MusicMan11712



Joined: Aug 08, 2009
Posts: 742
Location: Upstate New York USA
Audio files: 148

PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

patrickvf1976 wrote:
. . . I kind of regret not going for a CZ 1 instead for it has velocity, which can be modulated with the mod wheel thus allowing real time changes in the PD timbre, but the nifty little sequencer kind of makes up for it.

Thanks for the hint about the editor for the VZ, but since I went for the CZ 5000 I'm set for now, but I'm still keeping my eyes peeled for another cheap VZ (the other one's gone Sad)

If you want to do realtime iPD timbral changes, you can actually do much more with the VZ line than with the CZ-1.

Back in the 80s, I dissected the CZ-5000 memory dump. You can get smaller values via sysex than you can with the user interface (buttons). You can do things like set the number of interval voices used in a sequence to zero and have the sequencer play an external sound module and still have up to 16 1-oscilator polyphony live from the keyboard.

In monotimbral mode (1 voice per channel) you can turn local off, send the keyboard out to a program of your own design, and route it back in to control the 8 voices accessible via midi. I did this and had an array set up so that each note played would first send out a program change command on an open channel. Basically the table enabled me to have each key play a different patch based--up to 8 voices at a time.

Well, that's about all I can tell you about the CZ-5000--unless I find my notes about the sequencer's memory structure and usage.

One more thing, if you want to get a sequencer dump, you can pile up ACKs before the final F7 in the sysex dump request so you get all of the packets in the dump. (Note: the CZs do the final F7 only after the handshaking dance is finished.)

Enjoy!!!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
patrickvf1976



Joined: Aug 08, 2011
Posts: 182
Location: Gig Harbor

PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Wow that's a lot of information that I'll have to wrap my brain around lol, but sounds very interesting. I'm gonna look into that..
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
teevee



Joined: Jan 23, 2013
Posts: 66
Location: Denmark

PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Venn Diagram wrote:
modulator_esp wrote:
If you liked the sound of the CZ-101 go for the CZ-5000 as iPD sounds a lot more like FM than PD in my opinion



The VZ is also a bitch to program in comparison.


Same is CZ with ”stage envelope generators” I had CZ-101. So been there, done that and sold it! *Never returns*

But on the other hand I want to tell something a friend of mine told me about VZ-10M (Same family), these units should be pain in ass to make a good bass with, sorry to say :/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
patrickvf1976



Joined: Aug 08, 2011
Posts: 182
Location: Gig Harbor

PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The CZ synths are not so hard to program. The multi-stage envelopes are basically AR envelopes in series. The trick is to get each EG just right to get the sound/flow that you want. Not much more difficult than say a MS2000, Arp 2500, ...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
MusicMan11712



Joined: Aug 08, 2009
Posts: 742
Location: Upstate New York USA
Audio files: 148

PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I could be wrong, but I thought the "bitch to program" comment referred to all the button pushing to move through the display pages and to change the settings from max to min (or vice versa), not to the theory of operation of the synth engine.
Steve
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
patrickvf1976



Joined: Aug 08, 2011
Posts: 182
Location: Gig Harbor

PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 2:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I was referring to the complexity of the VZ's programming process itself, not just to the fact that they (the racks) don't have any knobs nor sliders at all. I was using the explanation of the CZ EGs because that's what Vern pointed out and put him off about his CZ synth. I was just trying to point out that the CZ synths are not difficult to program at all, but then again I'm comfortable in both worlds and for me it's all about fun vs precision - knobs are fun and great for performances while buttons are precise in small increments and you have complete control over parameter values. Anyways I didn't mean to argue, I love my babes how they are, no matter of the UI (unless it's tons of menus within menus.. yuck!)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
MusicMan11712



Joined: Aug 08, 2009
Posts: 742
Location: Upstate New York USA
Audio files: 148

PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks for the clarification; it makes sense. I agree. The CZ synth engine is straight forward--as easy as DCO -> DCW -> DCA.

The iPD synth engine in the VZ line is not simple, nor very intuitive. It demands experimenting in order to understand it and to be creative.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic
Page 1 of 1 [13 Posts]
View unread posts
View new posts in the last week
Mark the topic unread :: View previous topic :: View next topic
 Forum index » Instruments and Equipment » General Discussion
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
e-m mkii

Please support our site. If you click through and buy from
our affiliate partners, we earn a small commission.


Forum with support of Syndicator RSS
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
Copyright © 2003 through 2009 by electro-music.com - Conditions Of Use