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Poldenstein
Joined: Aug 04, 2013 Posts: 4 Location: Italy
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Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2013 7:10 am Post subject:
First decisions: format and DIY case |
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Hallo everybody
So, I'm afraid I've been bitten.
Recently, after some 20 years of digital synths, I had an analog epiphany with a friend of mines' monotribe. So I got me an elektron analog four, that I love deeply. Problem is that it has CV outs, and I started looking at things to connect them to. Now I'm done, and want a modular system.
I mean to build it getting one piece at time, so that the financial draining will be tolerable, and I will be able to make decisions on the modules to add from an "in the field "experience and not on abstract hypothesis. Also because I can start making music straight away just with one oscillator, if I send its output into elektron a4's signal chain.
So, module-wise, I would like to focus your expert advice just on oscillators.
But first of all I have to decide on format: eurorack or 5U?
It seems that eurorack has a wider range and many "new modular wave" esoteric modules that I find very sexy, but 5U's sturdy layout and big knobs seem more playable. Also I could consider in the future to start learning how to solder and do some DIY modules, and maybe bigger is easier. On the other hand I live in Europe and most of 5u's manufacturer are overseas..
Then the case: I think I will go DIY. Any hints to projects, measurements (the critical one should be the height between the rails, am I right?), etc?
Also I wonder if it is better to build a big (studio) case with plenty of space for the future, or doing something smaller so that I will allow myself the freedom to move to other formats if I want so.
Thanks in advance for your input.
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elmegil
Joined: Mar 20, 2012 Posts: 2177 Location: Chicago
Audio files: 16
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Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2013 7:59 am Post subject:
Re: First decisions: format and DIY case |
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Poldenstein wrote: | Hallo everybody
So, I'm afraid I've been bitten.
Recently, after some 20 years of digital synths, I had an analog epiphany with a friend of mines' monotribe. So I got me an elektron analog four, that I love deeply. Problem is that it has CV outs, and I started looking at things to connect them to. Now I'm done, and want a modular system.
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Welcome to the insanity
Poldenstein wrote: | So, module-wise, I would like to focus your expert advice just on oscillators.
But first of all I have to decide on format: eurorack or 5U?
It seems that eurorack has a wider range and many "new modular wave" esoteric modules that I find very sexy, but 5U's sturdy layout and big knobs seem more playable.
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Warning up front: I am here because I'm an engineer who likes to make noises, not because I'm anything remotely resembling a working musician.
Do you plan to "play out"? If so, the portability of the Eurorack format is a big plus.
I personally prefer 5U (I've gone with a mutant MOTM style, thinking in U just makes sens to me, and dotCom messes with that). But I only ever expect to take modules out of the house for synth meets (and I'm building a small cabinet for that specific purpose now...). And there are plenty of cool things in Euro that sometimes make me wish I'd done otherwise--in fact my current "main" rack has a Euro supply in it specifically so I can have the Euro Klee sequencer and a couple other goodies.
Poldenstein wrote: | Also I could consider in the future to start learning how to solder and do some DIY modules, and maybe bigger is easier. On the other hand I live in Europe and most of 5u's manufacturer are overseas..
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I don't think I'd put much weight on the idea of 5U being easier to DIY. Most of the DIY projects I've done recently were originally intended to be Euro, and they typically have had a "panel PCB" which mounts all the panel components. This is MUCH easier to deal with than wiring panels for 5U, and size doesn't really come into it. Thonk and Fonik have several excellent Euro kits, just to name a couple.... (I'd also include hexinverter.net, but he's on this side of "the pond")
Poldenstein wrote: | Then the case: I think I will go DIY. Any hints to projects, measurements (the critical one should be the height between the rails, am I right?), etc?
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For 5U, the Ikea RAST rack idea is really very simple to DIY (can provide a link if you have trouble finding it; drip.feed on Muffwiggler posted the main discussion I've seen of it). I can't speak to Euro; I'm currently doing a small multi-format rack (10U wide, fits two rows of 5U and one row of Euro so I can drag out my Klee and a couple other things), and you're right, the internal rail to rail height is probably the most critical measure, followed by the panel height (128.something mm for Euro, 8.75" for 5U).
Poldenstein wrote: | Also I wonder if it is better to build a big (studio) case with plenty of space for the future, or doing something smaller so that I will allow myself the freedom to move to other formats if I want so.
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I think I would start with relatively small, so if you find something about a given format you don't like you don't have to scrap the case or have lots of open unused space in it. My first "rack" wasn't really a rack, more of a frame, and it was 13U wide with 2 more 2U positions stacked horizontally on top of it. It was more than enough to get me going well with 5U modules. I think since you're talking about going slowly anyway, 10U or 20U (easy small cases to build) ought to do fine.
As for VCOs.... not a lot I can say other than I think my VCO-555 by Thomas Henry with PCB by Fonik is probably the easiest to calibrate/best tracking of all the ones I currently have. And it fits in 1U in the large format. And it can be done in Euro format too. If i were doing it over again, I'd probably want 4 or 5 of them . |
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Poldenstein
Joined: Aug 04, 2013 Posts: 4 Location: Italy
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Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 6:54 am Post subject:
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Thanks elmegil for your kind and learned reply.
I think I will follow your advice and begin with a small case.
Regarding format I cannot decide myself. I don't mean to take the synth outside my studio, and as long as I keep a perspective and don't degenerate in building something as the fat bastard, space should not be a problem.
MOTM is very tempting, if a bit on the pricy side. I'm also considering the curetronic range, that has very interestingly priced kits and is in Europe.
Anyone has experience about assembly? And the sound?
On the other hand eurorack simply offer more choice and access to the bleeding edge of development, but maybe in the end, fashion aside, a classic setup offers enough modulation weirdness for a couple of lifetimes by itself. |
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Paradigm X
Joined: Feb 15, 2011 Posts: 363 Location: Null and void
Audio files: 2
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Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 2:23 pm Post subject:
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for me, euro is so small and fiddly i had to go 5u. you can actually use it! |
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elmegil
Joined: Mar 20, 2012 Posts: 2177 Location: Chicago
Audio files: 16
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Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 8:06 pm Post subject:
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Poldenstein wrote: | MOTM is very tempting, if a bit on the pricy side. I'm also considering the curetronic range, that has very interestingly priced kits and is in Europe. |
Actually when I say mutant MOTM I mostly mean that I use the size (1.75" rack units as width units as well). Most of my stuff uses home built panels and it's all DIY at least at the PCB level (as in, I soldered everything myself). Some are stripboard or protoboard as well. So not SO pricey that way.
While I've had hands on with some MOTM kits, I don't own any myself. |
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Antimon
Joined: Jan 18, 2005 Posts: 4145 Location: Sweden
Audio files: 371
G2 patch files: 100
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Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 3:39 am Post subject:
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Re: Curetronic - I'm happy to see there's a working shop again. I filled a cabinet with ~10 modules a few years back and I'm happy with it.
The "kits" are pre-assembled pcbs, meaning that Mathias solders all resistors, chips etc to the board for you, calibrates the module, and what you have to do yourself is make a panel somehow, mount pots (included in the kit) to it and make the wiring.
I made some really crappy panels that I have been thinking about fixing a better replacement for... _________________ Antimon's Window
@soundcloud @Flattr home - you can't explain music |
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Poldenstein
Joined: Aug 04, 2013 Posts: 4 Location: Italy
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Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 8:45 am Post subject:
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Thanks for your replies.
I do not think it would be wise to start soldering components on a PCB with my level of knowledge, but connecting pots and jacks to it should be doable, and at that price it seems a real bargain. I've seen bare PCBs costing more. Beside connections where do you house the PCB? You stick it to the panel? How?
Regarding panels, I could not find much on the net.
Any link to resources? What is the best material? Any tip? Sellers of blank panels to drill? This would be useful also because I think the easiest way to build a case would be to start making a square with rails and blank panels and then building the case around it.
One more question, be patient please.
Do 5U use aluminum rails as eurorack or what else? |
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Antimon
Joined: Jan 18, 2005 Posts: 4145 Location: Sweden
Audio files: 371
G2 patch files: 100
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Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 10:32 am Post subject:
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I think I stuck my boards to the panel using spacers - there are holes in the corners of the pcb.
While pcbs and components may cost a bit, knobs (not included in a kit) cost a fair amount, and making panels seems to be a major hassle generally. People talk about finding sheets of scrap aluminium for cheap - I don't know where to begin looking for that stuff. Then anodizing and whatnot... I'm always interested in ways to make panels with as little effort as possible. You get into diy modular focussing on the electronics, but the main pain (and equipment- demanding thing) seems to concern panels and knobs.
Hoping for a real expert to chime in! _________________ Antimon's Window
@soundcloud @Flattr home - you can't explain music |
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elmegil
Joined: Mar 20, 2012 Posts: 2177 Location: Chicago
Audio files: 16
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Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:01 pm Post subject:
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Here in the states we have metalsupermarkets.com. I can get MOTM sized 2U panels (3.5 x 8.75) at 1/16" for just under $5 each. Not scrap, but not breaking the budget either. The site then contracts with local metal shops (or else has local metal shops, I'm not 100% certain which) to actually provide the goods. I live close enough to be able to pick mine up and save the shipping of very heavy goods.
I use photoshop to design the panels, or sometimes borrow someone else's (the emdot design for hexinverter's postman quad AR was very sweet).
I use a hammer and punch, and a drill press to manufacture the panel.
I print the design, inverted, onto clear sticker paper (mostly black after being inverted, and the silver of the aluminum shows through), do my best to line it up on the panel, cut out all the holes, and then spray with a clear coat to keep the ink from rubbing off.
I build brackets out of aluminum roof flashing which can be cut with tin snips, mount the PCBs on with standoffs, and wire up to the panel components.
There's a fair bit of work glossed over in that description, and some experience with techniques that do and don't work, and some amount of still figuring out better ways.
I would say the panel components (pots & knobs & jacks) are the most expensive part of the whole deal, depending of course on the price of the PCB to begin with. |
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Poldenstein
Joined: Aug 04, 2013 Posts: 4 Location: Italy
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Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 8:25 am Post subject:
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I see. The best solution would be to go to a place near me where they cut aluminium foils with exact decimal metrical measurements and ask for having some cut.
So I am starting to consider that I could go the curetronic way for a basic starter and maybe later add a little eurorack cabinet for those esoteric modules.
To keep cost down I could go with the kits for the more general purpose modules vcas lfos mixers multiples etc, and buy ready made and maybe from other manifacturers the more delicate ones, namely vcos and filters.
So, if I buy this
http://www.bild-schall.com/product/curetronic-power-one-15v
And this
http://www.bild-schall.com/product/curetronic-bus-board-small
Can I add modules from other brands without adapters?
What are the differences in panel measurements between 5U formats?
As I said my first module would be a vco. I guess that being my first foray it would be more rewarding to get a ready made module.
My budget for it would be in the 300-400 euro range. Opinions are welcome.
Ad lastly, this maybe is embarrassing, but can I use my existing jack audio cables for patching in 5U? |
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cslammy
Joined: Apr 27, 2018 Posts: 206 Location: USA
Audio files: 1
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Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:48 am Post subject:
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Hi there
I got this idea from this forum somewhere or maybe muff wiggler.
How to make custom panels for synth: Use pcb layout software, create a gerber (you know the standard "make a PCB from this!" protocol), then send it out to be fabbed at a place that does both PCB out of fiberglass and PCBs out of metal.
More details:
First, design the front panel in Eagle. Or whatever layout program you like.
You have to learn to use things like drills and dimensions and know about creating gerbers but If I can learn this process (I use eagle) anyone can! really it's not that hard at all....once you spend a bit of time on it....
Then with PCB design in hand and gerbers created,
I send the gerbers to PCBway
https://www.pcbway.com/
They have an option called "Alubase" which basically says: makes whatever PCB out of aluminum. hello? I have never seen an aluminum PCB in the wild but yes they offer this service.
BTW I have Paia fracrak gerbers already ready to go in ZIP format if anyone wants them. Tested working, That would provide you with 1u, or 2u, PAIA fracrack blanks ready for PCBWAY, buy a few from them and have them ship the aluminum blanks back to you, to which you could drill up for your POTs and jacks at home.
I may start on eurorack panel gerbers soon, not sure yet. Maybe one of these days. _________________ Visit my AUDIODIWHY blog and website |
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glow worm
Joined: Nov 05, 2008 Posts: 150 Location: Petts Wood, Kent, UK
Audio files: 16
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Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 6:43 am Post subject:
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I, too have finally been bitten. I've resisted the "Call of the Modular" for a few years now, but - for a variety of reasons (which I'll go into elsewhere sometime) - have finally decided it's time to peer a little deeper into the rabbit hole. FWIW what finally swung it for me was this video.
So here's my £0.02, based on the first few days' research...
Format: Eurorack. Why? Because...
1. Space. I live in a shoebox and don't have room for more than a 3U/6U (OK, maybe 9U) system.
2. Variety. There are way more modules available for Eurorack, including (as already mentioned in this thread) some "new wave" units (e.g. Mutable Instruments & Make Noise) that bring modular synthesis firmly into the 21st Century IMO. Yes, there will be VCO's/A's/F's, ADSR and EG's in my system (especially to begin with), but eventually there will be granular synthesis, physical modelling and algorithmic / Euclidean sequencing, too, plus who knows what else.
Case: Buy or DIY? I was originally thinking DIY, but will probably buy to start with. Why? Because...
Here in the UK, it's going to cost me around 70-80 GBP for a pair of 3U/84HP aluminium frames. Then there's the PSU, bus boards to consider, plus I'm going to have to put it all together and I'm new to this.
Meanwhile there's a new, unpowered, angled, 6U/84HP desktop case on Ebay for 84 GBP, with an option to add a PSU with 20 connections out for a further 100 GBP (although the seller is brand new with 0 sales so far). There's also an Italian guy on Etsy who looks like he does a good job and has received positive feedback for the handful of sales he's made so far.
I'm not toally anti-DIY and am sure I'll be soldering a few kits together to save money; but I know where my talents lie and they don't lie in carpentry.
Anyway... Those are my thoughts so far, at this: the earliest stage of my modular journey. _________________ It may stop, but it never ends. |
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