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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Jürgen Haible designs
String Filter (40 band resonator)
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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
Audio files: 24

PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 6:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Stavros wrote:
Hi Jurgen,

thank you for your fast reply.

Could you please give me some hint also for the second part of my question?

..."Considering either a passive or active summing on one or two outputs as suggested, these outputs could(?) or should(?) then be different from the normal output of the Unit?. Is my assumption correct?"

Many thanks again

Best Regards

Stavros


Yes. The normal outputs are part of the resonance feedback loop, so I wouldn't change anything there.

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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2thick4uni



Joined: Feb 20, 2009
Posts: 113
Location: UK

PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2009 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm just starting to wire up my String Filter, the extended edition with 40 of 10K log sliders - just wondering if it would be possible to sum 20 of the sliders (each with wiper fitted with 51K resistor) to pin 6 of U7B and the other 20 to Pin 6 of U10B? I would have a switch so that I could switch out all of the feeds from the partials 1-4 that are normally summed to these IC's. This would allow me to keep stereo spread function with slider eq function switched in instead of the feed from partials. It would mean that I didn't have to construct a separate output stage for sliders. I'd guess that I could alter R40 and R67 to alter the gain to keep it at the correct level it would have if the partials were fed through it.

It would have implications on the resonance circuit in that the resonance level of each band would be determined by the slider position; however I'd have thought that this would be a good thing?

Thanks,
Allan
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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
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Audio files: 24

PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

2thick4uni wrote:
I'm just starting to wire up my String Filter, the extended edition with 40 of 10K log sliders - just wondering if it would be possible to sum 20 of the sliders (each with wiper fitted with 51K resistor) to pin 6 of U7B and the other 20 to Pin 6 of U10B? I would have a switch so that I could switch out all of the feeds from the partials 1-4 that are normally summed to these IC's. This would allow me to keep stereo spread function with slider eq function switched in instead of the feed from partials. It would mean that I didn't have to construct a separate output stage for sliders. I'd guess that I could alter R40 and R67 to alter the gain to keep it at the correct level it would have if the partials were fed through it.


Yes.

Quote:
It would have implications on the resonance circuit in that the resonance level of each band would be determined by the slider position;


Exactly.

Quote:

however I'd have thought that this would be a good thing?


Maybe; maybe not.
Try it, and let us all know!

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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2thick4uni



Joined: Feb 20, 2009
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PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2009 12:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Many thanks for the advice Jurgen Smile

Parts I've been waiting for have arrived today so I'll get it finished in the next few days. I'll try various output options including taking slider outs to external mixer and report back with my findings and some pix.

Allan
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Funky40



Joined: Sep 24, 2005
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PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2009 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Going without onboard PSU, there is no need on any Boards for the 2x Tantals ?


Regarding the shielded cables of P1-4:
very straight line i have around 9cm from the Headers to the switches.
ok, without shilding ?
any general suggestions for lenghts ? whats short, whats long ?
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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
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PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2009 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Funky40 wrote:
Going without onboard PSU, there is no need on any Boards for the 2x Tantals ?


I would put them in.
If you can't get tantals, use ordinary electrolytic caps instead.


Quote:
Regarding the shielded cables of P1-4:
very straight line i have around 9cm from the Headers to the switches.
ok, without shilding ?
any general suggestions for lenghts ? whats short, whats long ?


This depends on the environment.
If you're far from electromagnetic noise sources (power transformers, switched PSUs, dimmers, you get away with unshielded cables over a longer distance, than when you're in close proximity to such offenders.

What I do is: I try it with unshielded cables, and if there's no problem, I leave it at that. I can always replace tha cable with a shielded one later.

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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Funky40



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PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

well, i need help:

the Guy is built, and it sounds, but Resonance Pot and CV makes nothing.
I need here please some help. I can't see any Faults.

I have made a little modification:
I wired the output of the Resonance pot to a CV output, over a 1K output Resistor.
The Output of this CV out gives me a minus Voltage when the Resonance pot is turned to CCW, and no Voltage/offset when turned to CW.


I love that sound and regret allready that i have not brought out the Partials to some additional Ouput Jacks.
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jhaible



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PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2009 1:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Funky40 wrote:
well, i need help:

the Guy is built, and it sounds, but Resonance Pot and CV makes nothing.
I need here please some help. I can't see any Faults.

I have made a little modification:
I wired the output of the Resonance pot to a CV output, over a 1K output Resistor.
The Output of this CV out gives me a minus Voltage when the Resonance pot is turned to CCW, and no Voltage/offset when turned to CW.


The -15V (ccw) to 0V (cw) on the pot is right. (See http://www.jhaible.de/string_filter/jh_string_filter_sch.pdf)

Try different settings of R17, and then turn the Resonance Pot. There should be regions of R17 where the resonance pot does nothing, and a region where it works. (R17 has a rather wide range to compensate the Vbe differences between unselected transistors in the expo converter.)

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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Funky40



Joined: Sep 24, 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 7:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jhaible wrote:


Try different settings of R17, and then turn the Resonance Pot. There should be regions of R17 where the resonance pot does nothing, and a region where it works. (R17 has a rather wide range to compensate the Vbe differences between unselected transistors in the expo converter.)

JH.


I tryed again, different settings of R17, but can't hear any changes when turning the Reso Pot or Modulating over the CV input.


I have a CV out for the Reso pot, going over a 1K resistor.
That works fine, should not change anything i think.
( makes a nice CV source to speed down VCOs btw. )
thanks Jürgen
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jhaible



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Funky40 wrote:
jhaible wrote:


Try different settings of R17, and then turn the Resonance Pot. There should be regions of R17 where the resonance pot does nothing, and a region where it works. (R17 has a rather wide range to compensate the Vbe differences between unselected transistors in the expo converter.)

JH.


I tryed again, different settings of R17, but can't hear any changes when turning the Reso Pot or Modulating over the CV input.


I have a CV out for the Reso pot, going over a 1K resistor.
That works fine, should not change anything i think.
( makes a nice CV source to speed down VCOs btw. )
thanks Jürgen


First thing to check would be if the VCA (U3 and U4A in http://www.jhaible.de/string_filter/jh_string_filter_sch.pdf) works.
Unfortunately (for testing), that VCA carries *two* signals, not one. So for testing it, you should temporarily remove R9 (or C6, whatever is easier). Then feed a signal to the Input connector (or R7), probe Pin 1 of U4, and see if you can change the amplitude with the Resonance Pot.

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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Funky40



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PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 11:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jhaible wrote:

First thing to check would be if the VCA (U3 and U4A in http://www.jhaible.de/string_filter/jh_string_filter_sch.pdf) works.
Unfortunately (for testing), that VCA carries *two* signals, not one. So for testing it, you should temporarily remove R9 (or C6, whatever is easier). Then feed a signal to the Input connector (or R7), probe Pin 1 of U4, and see if you can change the amplitude with the Resonance Pot.

JH.

I followed your Instructions:
No, no change of amplitude at Pin1/U4


second: how do i best calibrate the Bands ? Thats still to do
I thought i take a Sawwave and check the Frequenzys with Wavelab in the PC
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jhaible



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PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Funky40 wrote:
jhaible wrote:

First thing to check would be if the VCA (U3 and U4A in http://www.jhaible.de/string_filter/jh_string_filter_sch.pdf) works.
Unfortunately (for testing), that VCA carries *two* signals, not one. So for testing it, you should temporarily remove R9 (or C6, whatever is easier). Then feed a signal to the Input connector (or R7), probe Pin 1 of U4, and see if you can change the amplitude with the Resonance Pot.

JH.

I followed your Instructions:
No, no change of amplitude at Pin1/U4


Does the DC voltage at pin 2 and pin 3 of U4 change when you turn the Rosonance pot?

Quote:

second: how do i best calibrate the Bands ? Thats still to do
I thought i take a Sawwave and check the Frequenzys with Wavelab in the PC


You need Sine waves, not Saw waves.

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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Stavros



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi Jurgen,

i have a couple of questions on the Strings Filter please. I apologize before hand should these have been asked and answered already.

1. Trimmer R13 LG, what is it for and how should it be calibrated/set? Also Trimmer R17.
2. Should bipolar electrolytic caps be used at the output like in the “Tau Phaser” or not?

Many thanks in advance

Stavros
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Stavros



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 2:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hello Jurgen,

with reference my September 10th two questions, please disregard the second one as I have found the answer myself. "You have that already built onto the PCB".

I will appreciate your reply on my first question. Many thanks in advance

With friendly Greetings

Stavros
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jhaible



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 3:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Stavros wrote:
Hello Jurgen,

with reference my September 10th two questions, please disregard the second one as I have found the answer myself. "You have that already built onto the PCB".

I will appreciate your reply on my first question. Many thanks in advance

With friendly Greetings

Stavros


I haven't forgotten. I think I have answered it before, but I will look it up for you - probably looking for my previous answer in this thread, too, instead of figuring it out again myself. Smile Just give me some time - of maybe you're even faster looking it up yourself. Smile

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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jhaible



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Stavros wrote:
Hi Jurgen,

i have a couple of questions on the Strings Filter please. I apologize before hand should these have been asked and answered already.

1. Trimmer R13 LG, what is it for and how should it be calibrated/set? Also Trimmer R17.
2. Should bipolar electrolytic caps be used at the output like in the “Tau Phaser” or not?

Many thanks in advance

Stavros


R13 is "Loop Gain" - set the maximum resonance here, to your taste (self-oscillation, or just no self oscillation)

R17 will set the bias point for the Resonance Potentiometer.
Set the maximum Resonance with R13, and set R17 such that the Resonance front panel pot evenly changes resonance from ccw to cw end position without a dead spot.

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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TekniK



Joined: Aug 10, 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Synthesis of animals with JH string filter,same patch for both animals,only the waveform is different.
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TekniK



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PostPosted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Took me 5 hours to prepare and repanel my SF on its new panel.

Switches are not lighting up atm but they will.


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jhaible



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PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

... and my String Filter prototype goes to ebay as well:

http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160541758356

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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thermionicjunky



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 8:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

FYI, I very recently completed my String Filter using an SSM2210 for the VC resonance. I found that couldn't get the parameter to operate correctly. I replaced the SSM2210 with a MAT12 and it works as expected. So, for those of you planning to build this, definitely socket the matched transistor and don't give up if the resonance doesn't seem right. This circuit is a beauty.
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The Bad Producer



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 2:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi thermionicjunky, Just wondering in what way it didn't work? It would resonate? I've just finished another one and noticed the Res trimmer has quite an interesting response, seemed to only dial in to what i thought 'correct' within a small range
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thermionicjunky



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 7:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The Bad Producer wrote:
Hi thermionicjunky, Just wondering in what way it didn't work? It would resonate? I've just finished another one and noticed the Res trimmer has quite an interesting response, seemed to only dial in to what i thought 'correct' within a small range


Yes, the problem was similar to that. In fact, it seemed like a static knob setting allowed me to trim the circuit for a great-sounding resonance level. Turning the knob CW led to a narrow range of resonant white noise, then to a sound duller than the original position. I could trim the CV response to move this position around and I could use the loop gain trimmer to control oscillation but I could not get a smooth transition from minimum to maximum resonance. After sleeping I remembered that I had some MAT12, popped those in and was immediately able to obtain a smooth transition with no noise. Perhaps it was a an incompatibility between my expo converter and the SSM2210? Anyway, it went from not at all correct to ideal with the exchange of transistor pairs.
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The Bad Producer



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'd be interested to hear a sample of how yours sounds, as I'm not sure if mine is right!

I'll try and record something on mine too, tho our internet seems to have reverted to a mid-90's dial up speed for some reason, I'll try and get that up as soon as I can!

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thermionicjunky



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 8:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The Bad Producer wrote:
I'd be interested to hear a sample of how yours sounds, as I'm not sure if mine is right!

I'll try and record something on mine too, tho our internet seems to have reverted to a mid-90's dial up speed for some reason, I'll try and get that up as soon as I can!


Okay, I'll throw something together in the next day or two demonstrating a full rotation of the knob and some CV modulation using a couple of different sound sources.
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thermionicjunky



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Okay, I recorded some noodling with a thyratron sawtooth VCO through a VCA to the String Filter. In four different pitch ranges I manually increase and decrease resonance. Eventually I add some LFO modulation of resonance. You can hear the effect transition smoothly from very dry to what is essentially a non-linear reverb.


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