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 Forum index » Instruments and Equipment » Reaktor
Core Technology
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Dovdimus Prime



Joined: Jul 26, 2004
Posts: 664
Location: Bristol, UK
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 5:49 am    Post subject: Core Technology
Subject description: Anyone getting into it?
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So, Reaktor 5 users, what do people think of the shiny new Core Technology? I'm a new Reaktor user, so I've been getting to grips with the basics, but I have read through the Core Technology manual.

I have a bit of a problem with it. It's not so much that I don't understand it, it's more that I don't understand the point of it. What does it give you that the basic modular level doesn't?

Has anyone got into it, and if so, what do you use it for?

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Dovdimus Prime



Joined: Jul 26, 2004
Posts: 664
Location: Bristol, UK
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 4:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

No strong opinions then! Very Happy
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Mohoyoho



Joined: Dec 03, 2003
Posts: 1633
Location: Tennessee
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I just play the instruments. I don't build them, at least not yet. Sorry I don't have anything more substantial to say.
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Mark Mahoney
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v-un-v
Janitor
Janitor


Joined: May 16, 2005
Posts: 8932
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Mohoyoho wrote:
I just play the instruments.


I bought Reaktor 4 with great hopes to get into it. I grew tired of fighting with its long drawn-out interface so it got put back on the shelf.

Reaktor is for teckky-muso's and not 'retro-musicians' like me Sad

I think I gave the dongle away to a friend, who was tired of trying to find a crack of it! Laughing

Stick to the Nord or analogue IMO Cool

(heh- it might be worth pointing out that I found Supercollider easier to use!!!)
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Mohoyoho



Joined: Dec 03, 2003
Posts: 1633
Location: Tennessee
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I love Reaktor. It's a big part of my music. I don't know if my music would be considered retro or not. Reaktor 4 didn't need the dongle, and 4 was a great improvement over 3. I like 5 a lot too. There are so many wild instruments. I love their step sequencers and synths like Carbon and Steam Pipe.
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v-un-v
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well when I say four, I meant 3- you know how it is (and it proves when I last used it Very Happy )

I can't knock reaktor for how it sounds, which is fine when all you do is download other people's ensembles, but for actually making anything in it, it was really, really tedious- like for eg all that setting of how the knobs behave- I mean come on!! Laughing

I much prefer the interface for the Nord G1 and G2. It's so much more intuitive.

Recently, however, I discovered Plogue Bidule- which is really nice. Much nicer than Reaktor imo. But I guess it's like all things new, they [i]have[\i] to be new and innovative, otherwise they don't get a following like the originals, no matter how better developed over the originals they are.

Example (a wild example), Ebay is still the main player, dispite their appalling customer service. Start another trading bay and it doesn't matter how cool it is, the vast majority will still use ebay.
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jksuperstar



Joined: Aug 20, 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

In the states we have craigslist.com, which is comparable to ebay, in that it offers no support. But, it's also completely free, and you can just as easily find a date or get laid as you can find a car or a nord modular or even a house for sale. But, at least, it's organized into appropriate categories to separate the horny from the music gear.

I know what you mean about complexities for Reaktor, Plogue, or my own choice of punishment, Pd. At that level of programming, it seems text languages are more efficient. It's not until more powerful libraries are available (I guess Reaktor has some of that), that the graphical interface becomes a lot more useful.
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Dovdimus Prime



Joined: Jul 26, 2004
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I have to admit I didn't make a particularly informed choice with Reaktor. I just went with what, rightly or wrongly, appeared to be the market leader for what it did.

However, in my opinion it's the best money I've ever spent. (Well, there was my wife's engagement ring I suppose...) Cool

I prefer it hands down to the Access Virus C I spent four times as much on. I find it enormously intuitive to use and incredibly flexible in terms of MIDI routing and whatnot.

Basically, I'm Reaktor's bitch.

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simioliolio



Joined: Feb 28, 2007
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Location: england

PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 7:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i think core is cool. the use of read/write/latch/comapre/route devices at the core level is a pleasure to use, and highly effient. I find that ramping becomes a lot more accurate using the core modules. the introduction of arrays is very handy too. Also there are better filters pre-designed, and all these new upgrades use less cpu.
I guess NI are just trying to give Reaktor as much flexibility as possible when using raw mathematical data, realised that this was a bit clunky, and had a sly upgrade.
Reaktor is really good to design your perfect instrument if you want to give it the time. if you dont, dont! at least they supply it with library and great online sharing community so that the non-developing reaktor user can still enjoy (most of) its potential.
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leoleox



Joined: Feb 07, 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 11:27 am    Post subject: Re: Core Technology
Subject description: Anyone getting into it?
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Dovdimus Prime wrote:
So, Reaktor 5 users, what do people think of the shiny new Core Technology? I'm a new Reaktor user, so I've been getting to grips with the basics, but I have read through the Core Technology manual.

I have a bit of a problem with it. It's not so much that I don't understand it, it's more that I don't understand the point of it. What does it give you that the basic modular level doesn't?

Has anyone got into it, and if so, what do you use it for?


Hi, core technology basically let the user go deeper in design instruments or modules than the basic level. It allows to create objects like oscillators and filters with your own personal sound and features.
Personally I find the basic level enough complex. The core level is more complex but also very powerful.
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bantri



Joined: May 15, 2005
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PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2008 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It´s an enormous improvement over high level modules...

With core cells it´s possible to get any dsp algorithm and implement it.

Right now i´m studying ways to do fast simultaneous sine and cosine, because it´s a basic tool (extremely used) that was not implemented in core cells in the same way as the HL sine/cosine.

There are several flavors for this task:
(see the link for crude aprox. but fast implementation)
http://www.dspguru.com/comp.dsp/tricks/alg/sincos.htm

The provided core cells for sine and cosine have different characteristics like using -pi..pi interval (and invalid outside those limits) and are relatively heavy in multiplications, so depending on the case there are better solutions.

Usually in terms of processing power you can have either (slow and small) or (fast and large)

The best option for implementing sine and cosine (as other waves) is to have a pre calculated lookup table (extremely fast, and a bit large) working on it...

Also there is the concept of aliasing, search for "antialiased" oscillators, some guy made them, and they´re important to avoid frequency wraparound distortion (believe me this is terrible, so many people put a band pass filter before the synth output to minimize it, but this is not good[inefficient]) , and guess what... HL modules don´t have those. Those antialiased oscilators present a thing called the gibbs phenomenon at sudden (vertical lines) of the wave.

Right at this point i consider reaktor high level modules, as toys compared to core cell modules.

The CPU efficiency improves a ten fold, which means having a 10 times heavier processing module with the same computer, and this goes only if dealing with floating point values. If those are further optimized to use integer math it can give a 20 to 40 times speed improvement.

There is a severe limitation with high level envelopes because those use straight lines only (with some exceptions like the decay) envelopes must be exponential curves and that only can be achieved in some good way using core cells, the human hearing responds better to exponential curves for sound, to achieve real "earth shattering" bass you must consider exponential curves, and also to do good cross fading those are very important.

Unfortunately the available core cells library does not have all equivalent modules available in high level, but they can be done, that could be considered a strategic mistake by the creators because as those modules are not available, everyone will start creating those in a non standardized way.

The level of control is very enhanced on those like treating the wave at every sample tick, and dealing with extreme sample rates for doing delicate math operations like diferentiating or integrating makes a difference, the default HL modules for that present intense jitter and cpu consumption, compared to the ones i did in low level, when i tried to implement the sample and hold (basic tool but not implemented in library) and further the sample and (hold+follow) module.

It´s a difficult start, but once you get familiar with core cells you won´t be able to even look at HL modules anymore, except for providing knobs to control the LL core cells.

Also everything that´s done in core cells can be made to deal with audio events, which is the most cpu intensive case, but then the module can be limited to use only control signals, or to use integers, which is the proper case to develop modules...

First... Deal with the hardest case, separated in the simplest basic and necessary modules, and then, reduce the power to deal with lighter cases.

It can be compared as an analog example case of taking technology to an extreme case like the apollo mission, to take a man to the moon.

That was the hardest mission possible (with the exception of mars lander maybe), and it was accomplished.

The trick then was... after the technology used for it was developed, people were able to be split it in several easier subgroups like: the metal alloys could be used in cars, the low weight hydrogen/oxygen storage tanks tech could be used for firefighters air backpacks, the exaust nozzles for the rocket could be used to improve better jet engine exhaust, etc...

The same goes for core cells, make a small library making simple modules for every hard case considering all the limits, efficiency and uses and then confortably use them for easier cases.

An excelent source for inspiration is the nord modular free software (good tool), it has some basic module aproaches for dealing dealing with:

bipolar or unipolar signals
linear or exponential envelopes
binary signals including logic, dividers, counters, adc, dac (binary is very important)
signal shapers (you will notice some similarity with core cells)


Other than these there:

integer and floating point math
trigonometric functions
interpolation
sampling
lookup tables
modulo math
infinite series, pi, e, sine, cosine, kappa constants
rounding

Also to deal with making core cells to imitate functionality of other synths use "virtual audio cable" to digitally redirect audio inside reaktor to confortably look and reverse engineer a specific wave or pattern, once inside reaktor, probably there is some way to implement a core cell to do it.

A good example to start with, is a low cpu use (no multiplication), unipolar/bipolar, hard synced ramp oscillator for example (very necessary) , the default HL ramp oscilator is used a lot and is so bugged (depending of the case of course) it should go from 0 to 0.99999 instead of 0 to 1 because when dealing with ramp sequences it can´t include the 1, also it should supply a precise simultaneous up clock cycle at the beginning of the ramp for the next modules.
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Chrono



Joined: May 18, 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 1:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
It´s a difficult start, but once you get familiar with core cells you won´t be able to even look at HL modules anymore, except for providing knobs to control the LL core cells.


Where is a good place to start learning the most basic stuff to create Core Cell modules? I've been tryin to see how it works, but i can't translate any dsp code in core cells. Tough i don't even know yet how to read or write any dsp code. I tested some core cell's and some did glitch a lot or used loads of cpu.
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bantri



Joined: May 15, 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 8:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

"Core Tutorial.pdf"
Is a good tutorial to start.
It´s small and it comes with Reaktor.
You should follow it sequentially and do all the practical exercises.
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ghettosynth



Joined: Mar 09, 2008
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Location: Anytown,USA

PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

bantri wrote:
"Core Tutorial.pdf"
Is a good tutorial to start.
It´s small and it comes with Reaktor.
You should follow it sequentially and do all the practical exercises.


It's just a start though, you really have to dig into some DSP references to get the most out of core.
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otavio.gmcoelho



Joined: Oct 31, 2013
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Location: Brazil

PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 11:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

ghettosynth wrote:
bantri wrote:
"Core Tutorial.pdf"
Is a good tutorial to start.
It´s small and it comes with Reaktor.
You should follow it sequentially and do all the practical exercises.


It's just a start though, you really have to dig into some DSP references to get the most out of core.


And after following the pdf sequentially what are the DSP references?
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