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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Klee sequencer
Troubleshooting a Klee
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Metatronic Mods



Joined: Jul 05, 2017
Posts: 4
Location: Asheville, NC

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 2:12 pm    Post subject: Troubleshooting a Klee
Subject description: 90% Working, except Bus 3, and odd behaviors with the Bus 1 Load switch on
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UPDATE: I've determined that some of the missing output signals were the result of bad wiring on the output jacks. I've since discovered that the BUS 1 won't output a gate or trigger on steps 11-16. I noticed the 4034s were getting pretty warm, so I suspect fault there. I'll know in a few days when the replacements arrive.

I was recently contacted by another member on here for help with his Klee Sequencer. It had a myriad of odd behaviors, but from what I can tell most of them boil down to some malfunction with the bus 1 load circuit.

One issue that may or may not be related is that the bus 3 trigger and gate outputs do not function, I've tried all manner of settings with nothing apparent on these outputs.

If the bus 1 load function is turned off, then the bus 1 and bus 2 gate and trigger outputs work as normal. Everything else (pattern load from a button press or ext., random, CV outs etc.) seems to be working fine as well.

With the bus 1 load switch on the following errant behaviors are observed:
1) If a step is switched to bus 1, any time a pattern bit is stepped through to that step, the sequence resets. Essentially limiting the sequence to the number of steps before the first step with bus 1 selected.
2) This also means that if a program pattern consists of a bit on the step before a step with bus 1 selected, the sequencer appears to be frozen, nothing changes when a clock is received.


I have already checked the panel wiring for the bus switches, and bus 1 load switch, which are correct. I'm mostly just hoping that someone more familiar with the circuit might have some ideas for me. Like I said, I'm following someone else's DIY work here, and I'm not super familiar with the circuit yet, so it's been a slow process figuring out what's going on.

Thanks[/b]

Last edited by Metatronic Mods on Sun Jul 09, 2017 6:23 pm; edited 1 time in total
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elmegil



Joined: Mar 20, 2012
Posts: 2019
Location: Chicago
Audio files: 16

PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 11:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ok, re-reading this, I think your Klee is working as designed, with regard to the bus 1 load function. If you disagree, I made a couple comments included below that might help.

"bus 1 load" does what the name implies -- it loads the pattern switches. It's just like hitting the manual load button, or sending a load gate. So if there are any bits on bus 1, they will reset to whatever state is in the load switches, and yes, if the first bit is routed to bus 1, you'll have no real progress.


I would turn my attention to bus 3. With regard to that, does the master output work? If not, I'd suspect U15 (page 4 of the schematics). Otherwise I'd be looking at individual gates on U10 and U12.




Have you gone through the "bring up procedure" in the build manual?

It helps to isolate issues.

The immediate bits are U3, on page 2 of the schematics. Does the manual load button work?
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Metatronic Mods



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Location: Asheville, NC

PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

elmegil wrote:
Ok, re-reading this, I think your Klee is working as designed, with regard to the bus 1 load function. If you disagree, I made a couple comments included below that might help.

"bus 1 load" does what the name implies -- it loads the pattern switches. It's just like hitting the manual load button, or sending a load gate. So if there are any bits on bus 1, they will reset to whatever state is in the load switches, and yes, if the first bit is routed to bus 1, you'll have no real progress.


I would turn my attention to bus 3. With regard to that, does the master output work? If not, I'd suspect U15 (page 4 of the schematics). Otherwise I'd be looking at individual gates on U10 and U12.




Have you gone through the "bring up procedure" in the build manual?

It helps to isolate issues.

The immediate bits are U3, on page 2 of the schematics. Does the manual load button work?


Hmmm, I guess that does make sense about the bus 1 load. I'll try the bring up procedure once I get the new 4034's I ordered in. I updated my original post, but I now discovered that Bus 1 won't output a trig or gate on steps 11-16. I suspect the 4034s which were getting pretty hot while it was running.
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elmegil



Joined: Mar 20, 2012
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I would expect if the 4034's were dead, they'd not function at all.

So it's more likely you have short or something than the chips themselves being at fault.

Is it just bus 1? Now that you've got the wiring sorted, busses 2 & 3 are fine across all 16 steps?
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Metatronic Mods



Joined: Jul 05, 2017
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

elmegil wrote:
I would expect if the 4034's were dead, they'd not function at all.

So it's more likely you have short or something than the chips themselves being at fault.

Is it just bus 1? Now that you've got the wiring sorted, busses 2 & 3 are fine across all 16 steps?


I replaced the chips, and now all three buses output triggers and gates on all steps.

Now the problem I'm experiencing is that the manual load button has to be pressed twice to work (like very reliably it behaves as such), and the manual step button only works sporadically/under certain conditions. I suspect there's something wrong in one or more cable assemblies.
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elmegil



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Metatronic Mods wrote:
elmegil wrote:
I would expect if the 4034's were dead, they'd not function at all.

So it's more likely you have short or something than the chips themselves being at fault.

Is it just bus 1? Now that you've got the wiring sorted, busses 2 & 3 are fine across all 16 steps?


I replaced the chips, and now all three buses output triggers and gates on all steps.

Now the problem I'm experiencing is that the manual load button has to be pressed twice to work (like very reliably it behaves as such), and the manual step button only works sporadically/under certain conditions. I suspect there's something wrong in one or more cable assemblies.



I would agree that makes sense, although must load twice is kind of odd. check each cable for continuity, or just take them apart and solder them.
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Metatronic Mods



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

elmegil wrote:
Metatronic Mods wrote:
elmegil wrote:
I would expect if the 4034's were dead, they'd not function at all.

So it's more likely you have short or something than the chips themselves being at fault.

Is it just bus 1? Now that you've got the wiring sorted, busses 2 & 3 are fine across all 16 steps?


I replaced the chips, and now all three buses output triggers and gates on all steps.

Now the problem I'm experiencing is that the manual load button has to be pressed twice to work (like very reliably it behaves as such), and the manual step button only works sporadically/under certain conditions. I suspect there's something wrong in one or more cable assemblies.



I would agree that makes sense, although must load twice is kind of odd. check each cable for continuity, or just take them apart and solder them.


Well now I'm not so sure about the connection being the problem, particularly for the manual load. I'm following the signals working through the schematic, and so far so good up to the U5 4013 flip flops. I'm trying to figure out what the expected behavior there should be. I see that the first is acting as a /2 for the load signal, but I'm not sure what the second is doing. Anyways, the /2 block was unexpected, and I'm starting to suspect maybe my issue is somewhere inside this 4013 circuit. Any idea what it's doing there? Or what the PSA signal does?

Update: I had some extra 4013s laying around, so I popped on in just to see if anything changed, and the double load press problem went away. The manual step button seems to work reliably now as well.

Update again: I think I finally got this thing licked. Last major issue was a bad solder joint where a bunch of the panel controls connected to the digital ground bus. It was on one of the program switches, and looked like maybe the switch was covered in automotive grease before they attempted to solder; no wetting on the part where digital ground connected to the entire programming section, so several or all of the program switches would load in regardless of the switch positions (since they had a flaky ground connection).
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elmegil



Joined: Mar 20, 2012
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Audio files: 16

PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Metatronic Mods wrote:
Update again: I think I finally got this thing licked. Last major issue was a bad solder joint where a bunch of the panel controls connected to the digital ground bus. It was on one of the program switches, and looked like maybe the switch was covered in automotive grease before they attempted to solder; no wetting on the part where digital ground connected to the entire programming section, so several or all of the program switches would load in regardless of the switch positions (since they had a flaky ground connection).


cheers
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