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 Forum index » Clavia Nord Modular » Nord Modular G2 Discussion
Clock synced delays
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spewis



Joined: May 20, 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 5:30 am    Post subject: Clock synced delays
Subject description: losing sync after sequencer restart
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Hi all - appologies if this has been discussed before, but I've searched and not managed to find any mention of this exact problem, mainly just clock stability issues.

I'm running various patches with clock synced delay modules (4tap, dlyA, dlyB), slaved to the clock output of my Akai MPC1000 sequencer. Everytime I stop the MPC and start it again, the delays are out of sync. The only way to get the delays back in time is to add or remove a module (I usually add or delete a const module) whilst the sequencer is running, the G2 recalculates for a second, and then kicks back in perfectly in time.

Anyone know what's happening here, and if there's a way round it? I plan to make a patch using a 4 tap where I can measure the delay times of each tap once I've lost sync, and see if they're still in sync relative to each other, but based on a different tempo to that being output by the MPC.

Thanks.
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BobTheDog



Joined: Feb 28, 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi,

Can you attach the patch, or a jpeg of it?

Cheers

Andy
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iPassenger



Joined: Jan 27, 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

How strange, I would have imagined that the MPC would send a very stable clock. Sounds like perhaps the MPC is not sending a stable clock when it starts up but settles down once it is going.

I find that every so often starting the clock from ableton the Nord will sometimes start at a subtley different tempo and not quite get back in line, a start/stop seems to sort it out. The effect is at its most noticeable with sequenced patches with built in delays.

I actually have the opposite issue to you, if I add module the re-calc tends to throw everything off time not back in.

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spewis



Joined: May 20, 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

This is one of the patches I'm having the problem with, but to be honest, I have the same problem with any patch using clock sync'd delay modules.


04_delaymachine.pch2
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spewis



Joined: May 20, 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 7:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
Sounds like perhaps the MPC is not sending a stable clock when it starts up but settles down once it is going.


Not sure about this, as any sequencers are always locked from the moment I hit play, also I get no fluctuations in the master clock tempo display, which I know a few people have experienced driving the G2 from external clock sources. Also, if that were the case then you'd expect the dly to slowly come back into time? Or does the delay module read the clock speed the second it starts and then doesn't refresh. Think I'll try running them off the internal clock and set it to the same tempo as the MPC.
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xav



Joined: Mar 21, 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 8:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hello,
You mean the delayed sounds loose sync, after many repetitions? I think this is normal if I understand the problem. The midiclock doesn't send any wordclock information. It just indicates actual speed... Same problem with kaos pad. But ableton's looper seems to keep synced... amazing.
Maybe one can build a synced delay that follows midiclock variations, and modify sample playback speed as it keeps synced...? Tim could help us
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iPassenger



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

[quote="spewis"]
Quote:
Sounds like perhaps the MPC is not sending a stable clock when it starts up but settles down once it is going.


Or does the delay module read the clock speed the second it starts and then doesn't refresh.quote]

^^ This is what it does, at least I think it does.

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Tim Kleinert



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

xav wrote:

Maybe one can build a synced delay that follows midiclock variations, and modify sample playback speed as it keeps synced...? Tim could help us

My looper patches follow the midiclock rock solid in realtime.

I've often hooked my G2Xs together, and have driven one with the Midiclock from the other, and I can't remember ever having these problems. But well...

Synced delays that follow the Midiclock smoothly (instead of jumps) are possible. The solution would be to measure the time between two 16th ticks from the ClockGen in samples (with a 96kHz timer circuit), and use user-definable multiples of that measurement as tap pointers. Run these through a glide circuit, and the taps move smoothly to their new positions, causing a pitch slide (like tape- and analog BBD delays) instead of
discrete jumps.

In order to patch this, I would need to know the absolute delay length of the used module (25ms - 2.7 sec), because I'd have to calibrate the math accordingly.

But I'm still not quite sure if I've understood the problem correctly. Laughing
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Tim Kleinert



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

[quote="iPassenger"]
spewis wrote:
Quote:
Sounds like perhaps the MPC is not sending a stable clock when it starts up but settles down once it is going.


Or does the delay module read the clock speed the second it starts and then doesn't refresh.quote]

^^ This is what it does, at least I think it does.


Could be. The MIDI clock always exhibits some jitter (due to MIDI traffic and cable length). If this isn't properly interpolated, you get audio clicks in clocksynced delays. Maybe, in order to circumvent this, the G2 only fetches the MIDI timing at clock start command. Maybe someone can try this out.
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xav



Joined: Mar 21, 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

tim wrote:

My looper patches follow the midiclock rock solid in realtime.


You're right. The Looper Deluxe keeps perfectly the sync, even when changing the master clock, and when tweaking knobs on the G2. It's marvelous, I cannot understand how it's possible... but all this elastic audio is incredible... I'll try to understand that next century.
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Tim Kleinert



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

xav wrote:
tim wrote:

My looper patches follow the midiclock rock solid in realtime.


You're right. The Looper Deluxe keeps perfectly the sync, even when changing the master clock, and when tweaking knobs on the G2. It's marvelous, I cannot understand how it's possible... but all this elastic audio is incredible... I'll try to understand that next century.


Just succumb to bipolar disorder and wait for the next mania to kick in. Then it's easy. Mr. Green Laughing Wink
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Electromagnetic Wave



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I think this issue is the same from this topic where I shared a solution recently:
Quote:
turn off/on the 'MIDI Clock Receive' parameter from the System menu

http://electro-music.com/forum/post-432728.html#432728

I got this problem too when the G2 clock is slave with all hardware sequencers I used as master clock (AKAI MPC, Yamaha RS7k, Korg ESX).
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