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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » The layout factory
Craig Anderton Hip Bass Drum PCB
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Ruebezahl



Joined: Mar 09, 2014
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2014 3:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Since nobody had an answer, i went on, experimenting myself Very Happy Well in another thread somebody suggested to use zenerdiodes for lowering the voltage. i read on those and even did some maths to find out what Resistorvalue i have to place in front.(min. 90R) I startet with 100 but the Trigger-LED, would again, just glow a little bit, and the sound is just a little click. I changed the resistor values and also exchanged the zdiode, but nothing changed. Actually i even tried to trigger it from 15V directly, the click was a little louder but still not really a kick. I really dont know whats wrong?

Is the Method with a Z-Diode maybe not sufficient aswell? Should i use a Voltage Regulator? But i am pretty sure by now that there is at least another error in the Drum-Circuit argh Unfortunately i cant measure the voltages right now, because i destroyed my multimeter recently.

Multimeter: I wanted to measure the consumption of the bass drum in Ampere, but unfortunately i was measuring from + to - pole, while the power was on, so my multimeter is broken now. Now i know that you should never do that Razz But apart from the multimeter, is it likely that some parts in the circuit took damage?

Thanks for your help, although my questions are very vague and its more like a brainstorming with myself...

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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2014 4:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Depends on the power supply if its broken now or not, when it uses regulator ICs it is probably fine.

For the stuff after the power supply, that most likely is still OK, it just saw the power supply go down.

The meter may just have blown a fuse? Maybe internal, check it's manual to find out.

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Ruebezahl



Joined: Mar 09, 2014
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2014 5:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hey BlueHell, you were right, about the Multimeter. After replacing the fuse, its working again...

I made some progress, but its still not working right. First, the Trigger-Signal is working right now, with a stable 12V high. Thats for the good news.

Still no proper sound though. I did some measuring, and the problem seems to be right at the beginning of the circuit. after C1, at Pin 3 of the IC, the voltage suddenly drops from the 12V-triggersignal to a lousy 3,4V. on pin2, the other input of the amp, its exactly the same value. whenever there is a trigger, those values go up like 0,01V Razz lol. On the Output (Pin1) however, i measure -13,59V, wich is going up to -13,53. So it seems the voltage is really low suddenly after C1. Maybe this has to be that way, i dont know. but what is really weird, that after the first op-amp stage, the voltage is negative. Is this opamp inverting the signal?

For the sound. its more a click than a kick. The potentiometers all shape the sound though, in a way. so its not like there is no sound at all. its just much less voluminous than it should be, and super super quiet. have to turn my volume up a lot to really hear it.

Maybe someone can point me in the right direction? i dont really know what could be wrong. checked the part values already, there doesnt seem to be an error.

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Ruebezahl



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sorry for bumping, but does really nobody have an idea on that? Especially the question if the first op-amp stage is meant to invert the signal?

I also noted that neither of the LEDs are blinking (The Trigger LED did before), though they are not broken.

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jbeuckm



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PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 9:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The drum sounds really nice to me with interesting tweaking options. There are definitely settings where the sound is down to a click or stops altogether, so keep tweaking until the bass Smile

Note: I'm on +/-12V supply with a TL072 and +5V gate signal coming from an arduino. I have not done much with the limiter connected yet, but it's a totally different sound with one LED connected there.

I made a layout with the power lines into a Eurorack connector and generated the g-code to etch this on a router (.2mm 60degree etching bit). I also did a front panel in Cambam but I haven't tried that yet.

https://github.com/jbeuckm/hip_bass_drum
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Ruebezahl



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PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hmm, na, i am sure, its not me turning the wrong knobs Wink i attached a file how my kick sounds. i mean it would be okay, if in some positions the kick would sound like this. but i turned all the knobs, and its still jsut like this. Just no PHAT Kick Sound, how it should be.
I tried trigger it from different voltages 5-12. i actually didnt try powering it from 12, but it actually should work from 15V and i dont think thats the problem. Also none of the LEDs is glowing right now, althugh they are not broken... i dont know, i am pretty hopeless by now :S


nottherightkick.mp3
 Description:
its there, but... not really :S

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 Filename:  nottherightkick.mp3
 Filesize:  3.9 MB
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wackelpeter



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

just finished mine on stripboard... didn't used the stb layout already posted here, so i can't confirm that this is correct and haven't checked this too...

well, but mine works..
sounds really nice and cool...

...and yes it's pretty loud... think i'll try another smaller resistor after the Output cap to ground to limit the Level...

@Rübezahl... the limiter LED's doesn't blink... they're only limiting the Level of the Output... the only one which should blink is the Trigger led... when you raise the pw pot fully in one direction (widest pw) it stops blinking and glows instantly... mine runs on +/-15V

yours Sound as only the click tone is coming out of your unit... is there any Change when you turn the reso, click tone or click tone Level pot?

p.s. i'm triggering mine from 5V but 9V do work as well so should 10V also... will have to check with my urzwerg which can give 5 or 10v gates

p.p.s. detecting short Trigger signals with an multimeter isn't very easy in my opinion the multimeter is normally way to slow to detect the changes correctly... it does something but you couldn't guess what it Shows you... it's like measurung an ac voltage in the dc voltage range or vice versa...

best way to detect and Show the pulses is an oscilloscope... always a good Investment... you can get cheap ones for less than 100 euro via ebay and it looks also nicely when you connect it to your vco, filter or wavefolder... Smile


bass_0.mp3
 Description:
short demo recorded through mic of my notebook... not the best Sound possible with my notebook and mostly too much reso turned on...

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 Filename:  bass_0.mp3
 Filesize:  695.54 KB
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Ruebezahl



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 9:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Aww man, i might just try the Strip-Board one. I actually wanted my first self-etched board see to work, but i really need an "Erfolgserlebnis" now.

Yes an Oscilloscope is on my Wishlist, but didn't check for one yet.

For the Pots. Yes actually. There IS change when i turn them, and actually they do exactly what they should do. Just the overall Sound is just lame and no KICK more a CLICK. But i can chance the clicks resonance, thud, decay and so on. Maybe the problem is somewhere at the decay? I dont know. I gotta sleep now, but thanks for the Input Very Happy

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wackelpeter



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PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 2:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

maybe you should post du a pic of your board and layout... maybe there is a mistake and you didn't noticed that yet...

speaking for myself, whenever i have a module not running i check the board twice or more before i ask for help, but sometimes i've looked 10 times over my board and didn't noticed a simple brdige i forgot or swapped Inputs on Ic's... well i mean sometimes it's hard to see the wood because of the trees...

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Ruebezahl



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PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Okay i made some Pictures. In Place of the 6 LED for Limiting there is just one. Shouldn't be a problem, though. You can have a look at it, and maybe you will find something. Hopefully! Thanks!



Layout from KRS1972, earlier in this thread:
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.


2014-11-17 01.58.46.jpg
 Description:
The whole Setup with Power Supply and Trigger Circuit
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2014-11-17 01.58.46.jpg



2014-11-17 01.59.38.jpg
 Description:
The Board from the Top
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2014-11-17 01.59.38.jpg



2014-11-17 02.00.39.jpg
 Description:
The Board from the Back. Sometimes it looks like there are unwanted bridges, but its just some kind of dirt, not solder...
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2014-11-17 02.00.39.jpg



2014-11-17 02.04.56.jpg
 Description:
Close Up. The green stuff is dirt from the soldering tin. I don't know, is this normal? I think its the dried flux?!
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2014-11-17 02.04.56.jpg



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wackelpeter



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 8:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

ouch... the solder Points doesn't look so good... is this lead free solder you're using? a year back or so i accidentally bought lead free solder too... it's terrible stuff... you should better use solder with lead as it's much better to solder and cold solder Points are better visible... those on your pcb look nearly all like cold solder Points to me... could be the solder, the one i had looked similar...

also you should clean the pcb Scratching that dirt off of it and then go other it with a Piece of Cloth...
especially those dirty points between traces and next to other solder Points as you can't see if there's a small Bridge underneath them...
i do use a very small skrew driver and an old tooth brush and a magnifier...

p.s. youre shure on your 4558 chip that there isn't a Bridge at pin 1 and 2? Looks a lot like that...

the limiter led isn't that important and can also be omitted together with that Switch... it's just really loud w/o led's...

btw. i'm thinking that someone could also Switch that led's electrical in and out to get some Kknd of Accent like the dr-606 had it...

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Ruebezahl



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hey, the Solder is indeed strange. first there are is this weird green dirt everywhere. they emerge out of the liquid around the solder spots. i guess its the "flussmittel". but normally it shouldnt become a green, dry mass later. Also its sparking sometimes while soldering. not really sparks in terms of light, but more sparks in the accoustic sense. it goes "brrz" when i solder.

But its not lead-free. In fact it ahs a lot of lead. Its S-Pb60Sn40. I dont know what the S means, but it has 60% Lead and 40% tin. A quick research got me the information that normally it should be the other way round. This might really be the problem.

I think i gonna get myself a decent solder and do it all again. And FUCK CONRAD, they told me there is no difference i should just buy whatever i want, so of course i got the cheaper one...

edit: actually i found another thread where they say its complettely okay Laughing http://www.rc-network.de/forum/showthread.php/326314-Pb60Sn40-anstatt-Sn60Pb40-L%C3%B6tzinn-auch-ok (german)

but i jsut cleaned it a little with a toothbrush (good tip) and try it again

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Ruebezahl



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 1:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

ITS WORKING! Well at least it did Razz

I changed the Trigger-LED because it was not working anymore. After that, the bassdrum actually sounded like a bass drum. I was heavily distorting my soundcard input though, so just a few settings sounded good. so i lowered the resistor value of R16 (just like wackelpeter suggested) However, now the Trigger-LED is broken again, and its super distortet everything haha I need to go to Uni now but, i change the LED again. maybe the resistor in front of it, is broken too? i gonna see tonight.

But thanks for your help so far, i am a lot closer to my goal now Very Happy

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tokyomatik



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2015 3:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I finished to build one and worked directly....I can confirm that thge layout is working
is a simple but powerful and interesting bass drum...I already love it
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ElAndreas



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 12:32 pm    Post subject: Resistor at -12V input burns Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I have used the strip board layout posted here. I use a PC psu with +/-12V. When I connect the -12V to the board the resistor R2(R23 in the original layout) burns after a few seconds. I use 1/4W Metal Film resistors. For the pots I use 20k instead of 10k because they were available. Other than that I use the parts as stated in the layout.

I am new to electronics and would appreciate it if someone could give me advice on how to troubleshoot the circuit.
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elmegil



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

You have a short somewhere. Use a meter with the power off to measure resistance (or use the continuity tester function if you have it) between -12V and ground and -12V and +12V. You very likely will see zero (or nearly so) ohms or hear the beep that means there's continuity. Then trace the tracks for those voltages around the PCB and ensure there are no solder shorts. Then, assuming you've socketed your chips, pull the chips and see if you still have a short. If not, then you have a bad chip; put them back in one at a time and measure after each one to figure out which it is.

Also, if you etched the board yourself, examine it with a magnifying glass to make sure there aren't any residual copper traces causing this.
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ElAndreas



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2015 2:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

elmegil wrote:
You have a short somewhere. Use a meter with the power off to measure resistance (or use the continuity tester function if you have it) between -12V and ground and -12V and +12V. You very likely will see zero (or nearly so) ohms or hear the beep that means there's continuity. Then trace the tracks for those voltages around the PCB and ensure there are no solder shorts. Then, assuming you've socketed your chips, pull the chips and see if you still have a short. If not, then you have a bad chip; put them back in one at a time and measure after each one to figure out which it is.

Also, if you etched the board yourself, examine it with a magnifying glass to make sure there aren't any residual copper traces causing this.


Thanks a lot for your informative reply!

I went over the board and cleaned it up and found that I had mounted C2 (C10 in the schema) in the wrong direction. After replacing it the resistor does not burn but I do not get any sound. The trigger led D2 (D5 in the schema) glows constantly, with a faint light, even when no trigger voltage is applied. I this the correct operation of the led? Is it possible that other components were damaged?
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ElAndreas



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2015 2:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Is the trigger LED supposed to glow constantly or only when a trigger signal is received?
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elmegil



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2015 5:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Only when a trigger is received.
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wackelpeter



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2015 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Depends also on the Position of the PW-Pot... in my own built at least...
when turned fully in one direction widest PW it's permanently on without any Trigger applied to the Input...

As i see you used a stripboard... is the pot correctly wired? don't have the schematics right here... are the outer wipers going to the right power rails... maybe -15V instead of gnd? or something like this...

ok checked the schematics... seems like your suspect area is around the Inputs of IC1A... all resistors going to the right places, correct values? would check this again...

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lysergist



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2016 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Be careful if you make the stripboard version, 2N3904 are upside down. They need to be inverted, Emitter goes to GND. Pot wiring is inverted too.

Cheers it sounds really awesome for a little circuit.
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jeanpat



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 7:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi guys!

Noob question, but whitout it I could not learn.

Could the hip bass drum work under +/-9v without any adaptation, and will it sound the same?

Thank's.
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