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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Lunettas - circuits inspired by Stanley Lunetta
4046 tracking / multiplying limits
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mike page



Joined: Sep 26, 2016
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 4:10 am    Post subject: 4046 tracking / multiplying limits Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hello there, anyone know if the 4046 can multiply clock rate pulses? Or does it only work with audio rate?

Cheers!
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Steveg



Joined: Apr 23, 2015
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 6:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The data sheet says the 4046 VCO can go up to 1.4MHz. So that is the limit. Also if you want to use the clock for comms it might have too much jitter.
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JovianPyx



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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 6:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

If the MHz need is beyond what the CD4046 can do, the 74HC4046 works up to an input frequency of 17 MHz, but doing clock multiplication this way is a dubious technique. 74HC4046 has a power input limit of 5 volts. As SteveG said, the jitter may make it useless.

Jitter can cause short (or long) clocks. The short ones could cause partial execution of instructions which may look like intermittent failure, wrong answers for computations or just plain crashing. It isn't worth the hassle of troubleshooting IMO.

For any external clock to a digital device it is best to use the exact clock circuit described in it's data sheet. It's usually just a crystal and a couple of caps.

I know that today's microprocessors often use an internal PLL to multiply it's clock, but I've no idea what exact circuit is used for the PLL (which might in fact be a DLL) and there's no external capacitor for those.

But, YMMV, so if this is truly necessary, try it and then let us know how it worked.

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Skrog Productions



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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 9:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi , a long time ago i once tried a 4046 to increase the rate (double) of one of my mfos sequencers clock out , it didn't work at the 2 or 3 hz approx. speeds of my modular sequencer clocks .

Dave

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JovianPyx



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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 9:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yeah, that can happen if the 4046 cap is too small which could be resolved with a "range switch" that changes the cap value. The 4046 is capable of working at any rate below it's maximum with the correct size capacitor - even at cycle times measured in days.
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Skrog Productions



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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 9:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

ahh , thanks Scott Smile
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mike page



Joined: Sep 26, 2016
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

JovianPyx wrote:
Yeah, that can happen if the 4046 cap is too small which could be resolved with a "range switch" that changes the cap value. The 4046 is capable of working at any rate below it's maximum with the correct size capacitor - even at cycle times measured in days.


Thats good to know!

here is the concept, its quite simpified, I hope it makes sense

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

to add a 4052 to select the multiplication amount would be cool
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piedwagtail



Joined: Apr 15, 2006
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PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2018 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

There was the EMM Harmony generator see muffs - Harmonic Engine PCB - circuitbenders.co.uk.
The issue surely is the delay of change; whether it bothers you or not.
I thought about a 4522 for that harmonic engine with a DAC instead of the 4066 bashing.

Any design would definitely be a good empirical study at clock and audio with a lot of space for new ideas.

R
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Steveg



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PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2018 2:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

For the slide pots, can i suggest connecting the top of each pot to VCC, the bottom to ground and each wiper to the 4051. Then connect the 4051 common to the output op amp. Add a small cap if the 4051 switching causes noise or a larger one if you want more glide.
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