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The end of capitalism has begun
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deltamodulator



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PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 2:02 pm    Post subject: The end of capitalism has begun Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2015/jul/17/postcapitalism-end-of-capitalism-begun?CMP=share_btn_fb#img-3

This is what Ive been waiting for, the end of capitalism and the beginning of the new economy!
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LFLab



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 3:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Don't hold your breath Very Happy
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deltamodulator



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 3:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Don't be so rude. Smile
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 5:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I read the article maybe a year ago or so? - found it to be interesting, regardless of it going to happen or not. I mean ... the future ... Rolling Eyes
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LFLab



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2016 12:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Capitalism has been here since the beginning, it is very unlikely that it will ever go away. IMHO, that's also what the whole internet hype, and subsequent bust, has taught us. It probably will change form somewhat, but the basic principles will remain the same.
The important thing is that there is just enough legislation to prevent people from being total assholes (also an inherent trait, unfortunately).
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2016 6:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Capitalism as we know it today hasn't been around since the beginning. Depending on definitions, I think you can say our way of dealing with capital has been around for 1-6 centuries.

Capitalism is not part of basic human nature, it is a way of handling property that has evolved fairly recently in human history.

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deltamodulator



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2016 7:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I agree that capitalism will not die. It will, however need to learn to coexist with the new economy, kind of like different political parties in one country. Different intermingled economic approaches are and will even more so coexist in the future. (if that made sense lol).

Les
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Solipsis



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
Postcapitalism is possible because of three major changes information technology has brought about in the past 25 years. First, it has reduced the need for work, blurred the edges between work and free time and loosened the relationship between work and wages. The coming wave of automation, currently stalled because our social infrastructure cannot bear the consequences, will hugely diminish the amount of work needed – not just to subsist but to provide a decent life for all.


Reduced need for work and blurred edges between work/free time? Really would like to see that. Diminish the amount of work needed to provide a decent life? Hmm... either I don't see that happening yet or I may be living in the wrong part of the world.
Anybody else seen any of this happening? Question

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BobTheDog



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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Nothing lasts for ever but some things last a long time.

I'm not holding my breath either.
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JovianPyx



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

What exactly would the "new economy" be?
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Acoustic Interloper



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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

JovianPyx wrote:
What exactly would the "new economy" be?

Kleptocracy?

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AlanP



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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 4:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Megadeth wrote:
If there's a new way
I'll be the first in line
But it better work this time


Capitalism is the least worst option we've tried.
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glow worm



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 2:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Acoustic Interloper wrote:
JovianPyx wrote:
What exactly would the "new economy" be?

Kleptocracy?


We all become capitalists eventually, to some extent or another; no matter how noble our youthful intentions may be, or how we may try to disguise our capitalism through religious or socialist 'beliefs'. Some may come to realise that there are other forms of wealth than the purely financial / material, but - when all is said and done - we all want to have the things that make us feel wealthy and there are very few, genuine altruists in the World IMO.

"Any man who is not a socialist at age 20 has no heart. Any man who is still a socialist at age 40 has no head." as the old saying goes.

But some people are more talented at being capitalists than others. We are now in a situation where the richest 1% own 50% of the wealth and this is expected to rise to 66% by 2030.

Do not be alarmed, this is just history repeating itself, although whether there will be a bloody, global revolution remains to be seen. Things haven't got bad enough... yet.

And if that leaves you feeling a little depressed, this probably won't cheer you up very much.

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biscuitdough



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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Capitalism was invented in the early 1600s (all the colonial trading companies, Dutch East India Company etc) and fleshed out with theory in the 1700s (the Scottish Enlightenment and French economics of the time). Deregulation of markets (like actual places where you bought and sold grain, livestock, etc) led to the creation of what we would recognize as stock markets in this same period.

Now, hierarchies - those have been around through all of human history, for sure. Capitalism is just the most recent form of it. If people are ever able to advance, it'll be when we cease to legitimize dominance and submission, and the concept of having power over other people. That's the base that holds up the hierarchies, whatever form they take.

That's super unlikely, though. The fall of capitalism is going to suck for almost everyone involved, willing and unwilling participants alike. Most likely, a few horrible, evil people will end up on top in whatever system replaces it - that's what happened when capitalism replaced feudalism.
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AlanP



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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

biscuitdough wrote:
Now, hierarchies - those have been around through all of human history, for sure. Capitalism is just the most recent form of it. If people are ever able to advance, it'll be when we cease to legitimize dominance and submission, and the concept of having power over other people. That's the base that holds up the hierarchies, whatever form they take.


I really don't think you're ever going to get that desire for power out of humanity as a whole.

Yes, there are people who don't desire power, at all. There are also people who want power, lots of power, as much as they can get. They're outliers on the bell curve. Most people just want a bit of power over their day to day lives. I think it's tied to fear of the unknown -- the more control and power you have over your circumstances and the things around you, the more likely you are to be able to either react to, or ride out, any unknown events.
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wackelpeter



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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 11:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

AlanP wrote:
[I really don't think you're ever going to get that desire for power out of humanity as a whole.
.


That's why you have to implement some form of Regulation... capitalism per se bought us many new inventions (some useful and some useless) which the whole world could Benefit from but it also produces mountains of waste due to the high rate of consuming goods which is in the end unhealthy for all of us.
It's a bit like Warfare, this has cost so many lifes in human history but is one of the biggest contributors to the development of new Technologies.

From an historically viewpoint only those Systems lasted longer that had the majority of it'S Population participating and being able to contribute to the Society, while absolutist societies had significantly shorter life expectances.


With the concentration of Wealth and power now we can see a trend towards some Kind of absolutism in Terms of power and Wealth.
Which could likely lead into social revolts like we had it at the first bigger Peak of capitalism in the mid 19th century.

The ideal and perfect System would be one that distributes Wealth more equally, where there is no absolute equality as the Goal as People who work harder or have better ideas still should be able to Profit from it and it's always a catalysator for Innovation, a System that puts more weight to the social factor in General and is less based on solely consuming goods, as natural ressources are not infinite and our amount of waste produced will kick us some day in our own asses.
But i think/fear this will never happen until we are forced to Change our behaviour due to global catastrophes or something that urges us to go another path.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

We Cannot Fight Climate Change With Capitalism, Says Report.

https://bios.fi/bios-governance_of_economic_transition.pdf


Quote:
We live in an era of turmoil and profound change in the energetic and material underpinnings of economies. The era of cheap energy is coming to an end (Murphy 2014, Lambert et al. 2014, Hall et al. 2014, Hall et al. 2009, Hirsch et al. 2005). Because economies are for the first time in human history shifting to energy sources that are less energy efficient, production of usable energy (exergy) will require more, not less, effort on the part of societies to power both basic and non-basic human activities. Sink costs are also rising; economies have used up the capacity of planetary ecosystems to handle the waste generated by energy and material use. Climate change is the most pronounced sink cost.

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JovianPyx



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It doesn't matter since climate change is a recurring part of the system and is not caused by man. It's been much warmer than it is now before industrialization unless those crazy Knights were driving around in pre-fossil fuel engine SUVs when they were supposed to be riding horses.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I did not mean to go into a climate discussion here, but found the article interesting for this thread's topic "the end of capitalism has begun" ... the article mainly states "we don't really know" but it presents some ideas nevertheless as to how the end of capitalism could begin.
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JovianPyx



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sure, but in that vein then, I asked the question of what would replace capitalism that is better?
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

You did not actually read the article I posted, did you?
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JovianPyx



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yes I did, I just don't agree with it.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2018 1:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ok, cool.
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