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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Lunettas - circuits inspired by Stanley Lunetta
Lunetta with Euro interfacing problems ... anyone else?
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Richarius



Joined: Feb 22, 2014
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 6:52 am    Post subject:  Lunetta with Euro interfacing problems ... anyone else? Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

In working on a patch for the Deathlehem Jazz Quartet, I have found at least 2 different manufacturer modules, that will NOT drive my Lunetta modules at all:

- Mutable Instruments Branches
- Ladik Bool2 - logic module
- Bastl Knit Rider

The module's inputs that they would not drive are:

- CD4052 A and B control inputs (100k Grounded)
- CD4015 Clock and Data inputs (100k Grounded)

Thoughts, anyone?

I'm going to check the datasheets for the MI and Ladik modules to see what their outputs are. Though - if they're only +5V, that still should not matter to the 4052 and 4015 which are not Schottkey input doohinkeys ... stumped.

Thanks for any potential help here. I ain't none pro or anything. Just a hacker. Smile

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Richarius



Joined: Feb 22, 2014
Posts: 55
Location: Kitchener, Ontario, Canada
Audio files: 1

PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 7:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

All 3 that I mentioned above, have +5V outputs. Dammit.

In 1 of my up'n'coming 'Utility' modules, I'll include comparators, to take care of that problem.

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JovianPyx



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 9:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm not familiar with the driving modules, but since you mention 5 volts, I have to wonder about PSU voltage differences.

CMOS "likes" to have an input swing that matches the CMOS PSU. As such, if +12volts and ground are used for CMOS, then the CMOS inputs want low levels of zero and high levels of 12v.

CMOS that uses a PSU of 5 volts wants to see high levels at +5v and low levels at zero. In this case, using modules to drive it with PSUs of more than 5 volts can cause problems and can even damage the CMOS. This is because there are anti-static diodes built into all of the inputs. These diodes are meant to conduct with extremely low current. When too much current is supplied, these diodes can internally melt and that will destroy the IC.

Often modular devices have their own designer provided protection circuitry on their inputs because the designer can't know what the user will connect to it. These protection circuits run the gamit in terms of exact design, but will work within reasonable limits (such as, don't try to drive a module with your 50 Hz mains voltage). Lunetta circuits typically do not include such circuits. This is partly due to the philosphy of Lunetta being simplicity and if the Lunetta synth is all Lunetta running from the same PSU, then protection circuits really aren't needed. When you move to a hybrid system of Lunetta and other kinds of modules, then you have to include the protection schemes or damage may result.

CMOS can also have schmitt trigger inputs. Normal CMOS inputs need an input slightly above (Vdd-Vss)/2 to trigger a high and slightly below to trigger a low. Keeping the input voltage near (Vdd-Vss).2 is not particularly wise as noise can cause the gate to switch states "unexpectedly". For non-schmitt inputs, it's best to get the input close to Vdd for a high and close to Vss for a low. Schmitt trigger inputs create a no-man's land around (Vdd-Vss)/2. The input must rise above the no-man's land to cause a gate switch to high, and must go below no-man's land to switch to a low state. If the input stays in no-man's land, no switching occurs. Schmitt trigger inputs were introduced to make the gates more immune to noise.

The only exception to these rules comes when using a device like 4069UB in what is called a "linear amplifier" where the device acts like a sort of crappy opamp. In that case, the input voltage can be analog that goes from Vss up to Vdd. However, even in this case, you never want the voltage to go above Vdd nor below Vss.

Since I can't see all of what you're doing I can't analyze the problem any further. I hope what I've written helps you (or anyone reading) to get Lunettas working in a hybrid system and to prevent damage to your devices.

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