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 Forum index » Clavia Nord Modular » Nord Modular G2 Discussion
22 year-old cassette tape of huge modular synths
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mnml



Joined: Dec 07, 2003
Posts: 34

PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 3:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

thanks for posting a link to my site.

it's been fun reading all the comments.

I had something like 2100 visitors on Monday, over 15 gigs of downloads... so I had to do the mirroring thing. the files are back up.

also, seeing as I'm the one putting the files up, please check out the CD's for sale on my site.

about the tape hiss - yes, it's off a 22 yr old cassette. an engineer offered to do some noise reduction but after a year I gave up waiting. So what I did was some simple careful edits and fades so at least it fades to silence and not to hissyness.

the material is all very charming, and most of it is VERY professionally done.
the Brandenburg is really well done, and Roger Powell's (Utopia, Cosmic Furnace, etc) Auroramor is stylish.

About the Nord & the Serge comparisons -

I have an older Nord Mod (not the G2) in addition to the Serge, and while the Nord is nice neat and portable, the Serge never runs out of processing power for complicated patches. It is deeper, more interesting, and has a much bigger bandwidth - try ring modulating 2 ultrasonic sinewaves for beat frequencies on the Nord!

Also, you can have linear, log, or exponential envelopes.
I never understood why you're stuck with expo decay on the Nord. Has that changed with the G2?

Actually, one huge plus on the Nord side, is the free demo version Clavia released. Every music student on a budget should have a copy!

But all that's really a matter of taste.

thanks again for your interest and HIT MY SITE!!!

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 4:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hey mnml,

Thanks for the nice words :)

Is there any chance that you could put up a snippet of just tape hiss from the tape? Then anyone who wishes to try and remove the noise can use this sample as a reference for their noise reduction plug ins?

Tom

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mnml



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 5:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

yes, I can certainly post a snip of several seconds of tape hiss.

---- if someone is willing to step up and do this for every track, and if the results do justice to the material, I could certainly add that to my offerings.

interested stalwarts please email me privately. I will post the noise clip later today (22 June)

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mnml wrote:

Also, you can have linear, log, or exponential envelopes.

I never understood why you're stuck with expo decay on the Nord. Has that changed with the G2?


Yes, the G2 supports linear, log and exponential slopes on the envelope generators.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mosc wrote:
mnml wrote:

Also, you can have linear, log, or exponential envelopes.

I never understood why you're stuck with expo decay on the Nord. Has that changed with the G2?


Yes, the G2 supports linear, log and exponential slopes on the envelope generators.


Also; both the NM and G1 have amp inputs on envelopes which can be fed with the envelope outputs, USG-style. I think the G2 even has a envelope that outputs a pulse when it reaches it´s end, a profoundly "Serge-like" touch, I think.

Ok, I admit it; to me about half of the apeal of the Serge is the Universal Slope Generator. Actually mr. Legowelt threatened to kick my behind if I ever mentioned it again. I´m guilty, I´m bad, I´d seriously considder doing a theme record with only USG´s if somebody gave me enough of them. Frankly I believe you could build a universal Turing machine with enough USG´s.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Kassen wrote:
Frankly I believe you could build a universal Turing machine with enough USG´s.


Something like infinitely many I guess, but what does it actually do this USG thing - I had a quick search with google but nothing interesting showed up.

Jan.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Blue Hell wrote:
Kassen wrote:
Frankly I believe you could build a universal Turing machine with enough USG´s.


Something like infinitely many I guess, but what does it actually do this USG thing - I had a quick search with google but nothing interesting showed up.

Jan.


well, I made a different search and came up with this (very enlightning and recomended) page;
http://www.serge-fans.com/wiz_cv_trig.htm

which notes;
Quote:

Dual Universal Slope Generator (DSG)

Pro: Insanely versatile module; there's very little it can't do. Two independent slew generators (positive and negative) are combined to make a Universal Slope Generator. This Dual module give you two of them. Trigger it with a pulse and you get a single AR type envelope waveform. When the cycle starts a gate trigger output goes low. When the cycle is finished, it goes high. So to make it cycle repetitively, connect the GATE to TRIGGER. Rise and Fall times are settable by knob and two voltage control inputs, one attenuated, the other calibrated at 1v/oct.

Here's a short list of things you can do with this module: AR transient generator, VC slew limiter, VC LFO (variable slope triangle and rectangular waveforms), VC audio oscillator, VC trigger delay, VC clock, VCLPF, VC pulse divider, Envelope Follower. Talk about wide range - cycle times go from hours to microseconds, without range switching. You can almost make an entire synthesizer with nothing but this module, used in its various ways.

Con: The 1v/oct is most useful when you're patching it as an audio oscillator, but this is at the top of the Slope Generator's range. Tracking starts to go, then the oscillations die out completely at the top end. This module, versatile as it is, is not a substitute for a Precision Oscillator or New Timbral Oscillator.

Wizardry: The Slope Generator's output is linear, but by patching the output back into the attenuated VC input you can create exponential waveforms (with the attenuator knob set after 12 o'clock) or log waveforms (with the knob set before 12 noon).

How can this module act as a filter? It slew-limits the high frequency components of the incoming signal, at a rate set by rise and fall knobs, and VC. If the rise and fall knobs are set fully clockwise (fastest rate), filtering will be audibly minimal, seeing as the Slope Generator is responding rapidly to input. Turning rise and fall knobs counterclockwise increases the response time, and high frequency content at the output will decrease. Turn them fully counterclockwise and audio output will be minimal. So feed this thing a low harmonic content waveform like a sine or triangle, and you've got a rough equivalent VCA!

This sort of filtering action is more subtle than the regular VCFs, though a bit more obvious than a 'tone control.' Good for mellowing out raspy and buzzy tones.

Cross-connecting two Slope Generators together generates interesting 'chaotic' waveforms. Connect the output of one to the attenuated VC input of the other, then take the output of the second and patch it to the input of the first. Play with the attenuator settings.

The DSG has a 'Rise-Both-Fall' switch. This determines whether the control voltage coming in at the 'VC IN' jack controls the rise time, the fall time, or both. Since you can use feedback to create output exponential or logarithmic output curves, you can use this switch to create combination curves where the rise is linear (set the switch to FALL) and the fall is exponential or logarithmic, or the rise is curved and the fall linear, etc. The 1V/OCT jack is not affected by the switch.

The LED's on this module and a few others act as a level indicator, dark=off, bright=full on, or in-between.

Tweaks: The panel layout of this module has been changed around, and now it includes a bipolar jack. This AC-couples the output so you can do nice vibrato (which needs bipolar FM).


But let´s go visit the new location for the CEM one day with Rob and Ruud so you´ll be able to check it out in person. They even have manuals and schematics for the Serge.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

Looks quite innocent, doesn´t it?
:¬)

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Its a nice little module, I like multifunction stuff, like the Quad Function Gen from Buchla. And the precision engineering is nice. At $485 each I think I'll take two.

I would like a voltage controlled glide for the G2 though.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Interesting module for sure, thanks for the link.

Now searching on DSG instead I found a nice manual for the Serge - in http://www.carbon111.com/serge.html click on "Serge Guidebook" for a ZIP of some PDF's

Jan.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The Tom Dill untitled track has some realistic cymbal/percussion/tom sounds. Is he playing along with the Serge or synthesizing everything?
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Blue Hell wrote:

Now searching on DSG instead........


Yes, my bad. Sorry.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

g2ian wrote:
I would like a voltage controlled glide for the G2 though.

Can't you always us a MIDI CC and a MIDI Control Send?. Ugly, but it will work - won't it?

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mnml



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I just put a 3 sec clip of tape noise up.

so for you gearheads who want JUST THE NOISE go for it.

256k encoded mp3 for finest quality noise. Very Happy

Yes, the DSG is awesome. After seven years of screwing around with them I heard about a new application - I think with the addition of a logic inverter you can turn a DSG into a voltage controlled burst generator. That is, voltage controlled speed and number of cycles.

Owing to work, family life, school, and etc etc I haven't f'd with this a whole lot but I do know it works.

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Last edited by mnml on Wed Jun 22, 2005 8:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mosc wrote:
g2ian wrote:
I would like a voltage controlled glide for the G2 though.

Can't you always us a MIDI CC and a MIDI Control Send?. Ugly, but it will work - won't it?


That would do for slow modulation, I want it to respond at audio rates so I can do wave shaping Smile and things I havn't thought of yet Very Happy
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 12:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Kassen wrote:

Looks quite innocent, doesn´t it?
:¬)


Isn't it just a vc-ad eg with a fancy name?

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 1:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

v-un-v wrote:
Kassen wrote:

Looks quite innocent, doesn´t it?
:¬)


Isn't it just a vc-ad eg with a fancy name?


Well, it claims to generate slopes, nothing more, nothing less. Read that text I pasted, it´s realy quite nifty.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 5:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Kassen wrote:
v-un-v wrote:
Kassen wrote:

Looks quite innocent, doesn´t it?
:¬)


Isn't it just a vc-ad eg with a fancy name?


Well, it claims to generate slopes, nothing more, nothing less. Read that text I pasted, it´s realy quite nifty.


Okay, got you. It IS just a fancy vc-eg but like all Buchla/ Serge (and I should add, Grant Richter's Wiard system) it can work at both audio/ processing and modulation levels.

I've got a Wiard Wogglebug- based on Buchla's Source of Uncertainty module. This too can do audio/ processing and modulation. It cost me an arm and a leg for just one module. I wish I could afford a whole system. But otoh I too use the LFO's in my micromodular as audio oscillators (wiring them from a master osc module).

I suppose its just down to how much cash you have at your disposal, and at the end of the day, how much creativity you possess ;)

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2005 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

davep wrote:


Hello v-un-v! Actually, I was toying with the idea of getting a real hardware modular in ADDITION to my NM & G2 (I'm a real greedy bastard sometimes). I played around with the Excel module planner spreadsheet on the Doepfer site and the system quickly grew to eight panels and over US$8000.


OK, I got curious again, and I took a stab at concocting another real modular just to see what it would look like. This time based on the "dotcom" line of modules:
http://www.synthesizers.com/index.html with a few MOTM & other modules tossed in. It ended up being about 50 modules, exactly filling a Dotcom 44-space two-row slant cabinet and a 22-space single row cabinet. The cost would be about $8000. Same as the Doepfer.

So I then took a few minutes & created a G2 patch that matches this design almost exactly. It ends up being about 90% DSP, but of course I get eight voices out of the G2 if I want. The resulting patch is attached. Play a low note & let is sustain for a while. Kinda ballsy, if I do say so myself. I feel like I just saved $8000. Enjoy!


Virtual Synthdotcom.pch2
 Description:
Virtual version of an $8000 fifty-module "Dotcom" system, one 44-space two row cabinet and one 22-space single row cabinet.

Download
 Filename:  Virtual Synthdotcom.pch2
 Filesize:  4.97 KB
 Downloaded:  792 Time(s)


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2005 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

davep wrote:
... of course I get eight voices out of the G2 if I want. ...I feel like I just saved $8000. Enjoy!


You mean you saved $64000, don't you? Shocked

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2005 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mosc wrote:


You mean you saved $64000, don't you? Shocked


Hey, you're right! Hmmm... what should I spend that money on? I know! A really, really big modular synth! No.... wait.... uh..

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2005 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mosc wrote:
davep wrote:
... of course I get eight voices out of the G2 if I want. ...I feel like I just saved $8000. Enjoy!


You mean you saved $64000, don't you? Shocked


More. I know exactly one (count 'em) person that ever got involved with analogue polyphonic keyboards. James (for that´s his name) has a lot of stories that he cheerfully tells. He´s also very interested in modular synths, I sat down with him at a party scribling on a napkin. Just don´t ever ask him about the keyboard, just don´t. He´ll look very painfull and sad, it´s much better to ask him about the time his friend set his breath on fire due to drinking a lot of homebrew vodka.....

Good luck finding anybody who will even considder building a keyboard for that one; my complaints about polyphony will seem downright euphoric in comparison.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2005 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Kassen wrote:


More. I know exactly one (count 'em) person that ever got involved with analogue polyphonic keyboards.


When I was in college I had the pleasure of working with a very large Emu Modular (maybe 70 modules) that included Emu's digital scanning polyphonic keyboard for controlling modular synths. It worked very well. The keyboard connected to the main cabinet via a ribbon cable, and you accessed the gates & CVs for all the voices via a large cluster of output jacks on an interface module. I think the keyboard was capable of providing control for eight voices, but personally I never made a patch that was more than six.

Emu licenced this digital scanning keyboard technology to Sequential Circuits for the Prophet 5, and this was a main source of income for the company in the early years (before the introduction of the Emulator samplers).

The college eventually sold the Emu and bought a Synclavier. I wonder where that Emu is now....

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2005 7:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Back in the 70s, during the Watergate years, I did an interview for my radio program, Thin Aire on KPFA, with Dave Rossum and Scot Wedge about the then new Emu polyphonic modular synth. I played the system. It worked very well. I was blown away. Those modular systems were outstanding. It was a bit awkward to have to patch multiple voices exactly the same. The problem was solved with the Prophet 5, but that synth had it's own different set of problems. Anyhow, the Emu was very successful - technically if not financially. .
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2005 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

One more bit of polyphonic modular trivia - there was another polyphonic keyboard controller produced by Polyfusion around 1980 for the Polyfusion Series 2000 Modular synths (model 2058). This one had all of the gate & CV jacks on a large breakout box instead of on a module panel on the synth. It looked a bit like a stage snake box. But this one also had velocity outs for each voice!
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