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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Les Hall's Projects including eChucK
Chains, Loops and Other Nets of Oscillators
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Stream Operator


Joined: Oct 13, 2007
Posts: 6188
Location: San Antonio, Tx, USA
Audio files: 267

PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2019 4:59 am    Post subject: Chains, Loops and Other Nets of Oscillators
Subject description: A Project Thread
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Let's play with oscillators! I was daydreaming about oscillators, logic, and assorted networks when it occurred that this topic would make a good electro-music.com project thread. So here we are.

I've purchased some parts and some more that fell through the cracks are on the way. The list includes breadboards, opamps, lamps, jumper wires and assorted "breadboard friendly" parts from Adafruit (pots, jacks, battery holders, etc.). Which, BTW, those breadboard friendly parts are golden because the tiresome task of soldering leads onto parts for breadboard use all but disappear.

So anyway, the plan is to make oscillators and hook them up in interesting ways, then play around interactively to discover something worth building. In other words, the usual interesting stuff.

So here we are at the beginning of yet another project thread and I'd just like to leave you with one thought. When you post to a project thread it motivate me. Probably the single biggest project killer is lack of interaction. So if you have a free moment, I'd love to read whatever strikes your fancy.

Here's to good times!
Les

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Grumble



Joined: Nov 23, 2015
Posts: 956
Location: Netherlands
Audio files: 27

PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2019 7:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I am in the proces of building an Eurorack synthesizer:
http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-69485.html DIY Multichannel Midi to CV converter which I adapted for eurorack and has an USB midi input.
https://ornament-and-cri.me ornament and crime, speaks for itself.
https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/topic-201663.html a dual adsr generator.
https://electricdruid.net/cem3340-vco-voltage-controlled-oscillator-designs/ I use the memory moog vco, one has a switch to lower the frequency even more in order to use it as a LFO, and two identical vco’s, so I have a total of 3 vco’s.
I made a three input VCA almost straight from the datasheet of the V2164 https://electricdruid.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/V2164.pdf
http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-70593.html Transistor ladder filter with input mixer.

If this is not what you are after I’m happy to remove this post.

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Inventor
Stream Operator


Joined: Oct 13, 2007
Posts: 6188
Location: San Antonio, Tx, USA
Audio files: 267

PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2019 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sure Grumble, it's great to see the gear you have. You could chain those oscillators together to test out some ideas.

What I am doing is circuit level, where it's possible to evolve it into a pedal or enclosed PCB device. Maybe even a modular board.

I am sleepy so I'll write more later.

Les

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RingMad



Joined: Jan 15, 2011
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Location: Montreal, Canada
Audio files: 3

PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Nice to see you again, Les.

Could you elaborate on what you envision? How would nets be connected together?

As for chains or loops, the first circuit I put in a box was based on the one in Nicolas Collins' book "Handmade Electronic Music" (the book that started me on this electronics adventure), wherein he proposed four NAND gate oscillators, each one gating the next one (and the last splitting into the output as well as a feedback pot going back to the first one).

Those of course are simply plugged directly.

Nets would need to involve something more elaborate, right? Resistor or diode mixers? Or maybe the interference or whatever the appropriate technical term is for when signals go backwards, affecting a circuit would actually give interesting results?

.:james:.
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Blue Hell
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Joined: Apr 03, 2004
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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I think delays in the connection paths would make it Cool come alive Exclamation

Also this made me think of a performance Howard once did, 2003 I t hink it was, in London, for two oscillators ... so a very simple network which was played by turning knobs ... let me see if I can find a link ... yupsa Smile

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RingMad



Joined: Jan 15, 2011
Posts: 378
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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2019 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Blue Hell wrote:
a performance Howard once did [...] for two oscillators ... so a very simple network which was played by turning knobs

Yes! Some very nice sounds in there.

I wonder if it gives anything to connect several pairs of oscillators in the same manner.

I also like the unpredictability. (Although playing a concert with it can be pretty scary... I remember with horror my most disastrous concert, using no-input mixing board).

Delays could be good too, although I admit that I don't know how those would be achieved (except maybe if only dealing with square waves).

Jan/Blue Hell, did you ever reproduce Howard/Mosc's patch on WREN? Would it be possible? Maybe I should finally try WREN.

.:james:.
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2019 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

RingMad wrote:
Jan/Blue Hell, did you ever reproduce Howard/Mosc's patch on WREN? Would it be possible?


No, I didn't ... in fact it's the first time now that I've actually looked at the patch .. Wren does not have the phaser module properly .. this could be patched with some delays, lfo's and mixers.

But let me not derail the thread too much Laughing

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RingMad



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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 4:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Blue Hell wrote:
Wren does not have the phaser module properly

The phaser was just for "stereo-izing" the output, it seems. The heart of the patch is the cross-modulation of the oscillators, and is the part I think most interesting, and possibly applicable to this thread.

Anyway, that's what I want to try first, if I had time... I'm preparing for a solo concert, although... no, no, it's too risky to attempt a set with a hardware version of Mosc's thing.

.:james:.
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Stream Operator


Joined: Oct 13, 2007
Posts: 6188
Location: San Antonio, Tx, USA
Audio files: 267

PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 9:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ty for the comments, also for the link. I used to be in such a hurry that I would not take the time to follow links and actually listen to the music of my friends. That was a mistake.

I enjoyed Howard's music well enough to call it inspiring because with only two oscillators a lot of different sounds were created. I was thinking of a similar idea. Take a look at the schematic of the Wien Bridge Oscillator (attached).

My plan is to lift up the ground terminals on the inverting and non-inverting sides and connect outputs from other oscillators in some creative way. Ideas for how to do so are forming now.

At the moment I have built an LM386 oscillator driving a small breadboard-friendly speaker, tested and working by mimicking a switch's "click" noise from silent to full volume, USB power input, and just beginning on the oscillators by creating a virtual ground.

Lets cross our fingers and hope for good luck!
Les


Wien Bridge Oscillator Reerence Circuit.jpg
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The Wien Bridge Oscillator Schematic (from Google image search)
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Wien Bridge Oscillator Reerence Circuit.jpg



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RingMad



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PostPosted: Yesterday, at 5:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm not sure if I should post this here or in Howard/Mosc's old thread. I built a couple of 555 astable oscillators and cross-modulated them, but I don't get anything like the nice timbres Mosc did.

Specifically, for both oscillators, I took the output at pin3 and split it to its own pin5 as well as the other 555's pin5 (through a capacitor). I also took the output from one and put it into a bandpass filter, and then mixed that with the raw output of the other oscillator. So, I believe this is the essentials of what Mosc did, without the compressor or stereoization stuff. The sounds I was getting never had wild volume fluctuations, so compressing wasn't necessary.

Maybe there's something I'm missing.

.:james:.
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