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 Forum index » Clavia Nord Modular » Nord Modular G2 Discussion
G2 and Reakor - patch building
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sluggo



Joined: Apr 17, 2005
Posts: 7
Location: BC Canada

PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 4:09 pm    Post subject: G2 and Reakor - patch building Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sorry about another reaktor question,

I'm interested in getting a G2, but in order to do so I would have to sell Reaktor5. The biggest issue for me is that I really like the Carbon ensemble. Carbon is the best synth I've used for creating a type of shimmering housey sound. Please check out the mp3 link for examples.

http://www3.telus.net/sluggo/music/synth1.MP3

If you listen to the mp3 you'll hear 3 examples of this sound (the 2nd one is the best example). It's not terribly complex, but nonetheless I find it very difficult to get such a "shimmering" type sound out of most of my synths. This sound is very common in deep house, I think maybe it comes from a Juno106.

Anyways, is the G2 suitable for getting this type of sound? I'm a lousy patch maker, and I have failed with most synths other than Carbon.

Thanks
s
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zynthetix



Joined: Jun 12, 2003
Posts: 838
Location: nyc
Audio files: 10
G2 patch files: 13

PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ahh, I remember the Carbon patch. I found it was one of the cooler instruments in the library when Reaktor 4 came out. I made a couple tracks using it for those fat bass sounds it is capable of. (I have since rebuilt and tweaked those bass sounds in the G2.)

The G2 is definitely capable of those sounds, or sounds very close to the carbon instrument. I'm not sure if some of the factory patches sound like that or not. What I would do is take a few screen shots of the Carbon's front panel and maybe some of the structure and rebuild it with the G2. I think it would be more worthwhile to use the panel screenshots as referrence....NI tends to build things very obscurely in their library patches and it is harder to get the big picture.


If it helps, this was my Reaktor and G2 experience:

I got the G2 about a year after I got Reaktor....since then, I seldomn touch Reaktor. I plan to get back into it for some sampling purposes, but the G2 is a lot more fun to patch and IMHO a much more intuitive learning tool (especially if you want to learn to patch better). There is also the whole live-performance aspect you get with the G2 since you can unplug it and play anywhere thanks to the built in controls (on the keyboard versions). I also have to add that Reaktor and the G2 do compliment eachother well...but if I had to pick one, it would be the G2.

This is my personal experience with Reaktor and the G2, but you will have to judge for yourself. I am sure we are different musicians and I am absolutely sure we are different people Wink I also have to add that you shouldn't apologize for asking questions, it will help you find the tools that best suit you and a lot of people here are happy to answer.
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Kassen
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Joined: Jul 06, 2004
Posts: 7678
Location: The Hague, NL
G2 patch files: 3

PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 12:16 am    Post subject: Re: G2 and Reakor - patch building Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

sluggo wrote:
This sound is very common in deep house, I think maybe it comes from a Juno106.


I think that it originally came from a electric piano with tapedelay, springreverb and carefull filtering and engineering.

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taylor12k



Joined: May 04, 2005
Posts: 56
Location: brooklyn

PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 3:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

keep in mind that the G2 and reaktor are both VERY different beasts. if you want the whole range of sampling/soundfile/granular aspects of sound design then don't dump reaktor.... but, i agree with zynthetix.... the G2 is more fun, more intuitive to patch.. and isn't a processor hog on your machine Smile

although reaktor's sampling and recording capabilities do make it a more varied instrument.

what about getting a G2 engine? if you were budgeting on a G2 keyboard maybe an engine wouldn't force you to sell reaktor.... my G2 is an engine and i absolutely love it.. i have never doubted the purchase or wished i had the keyboard version.....
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sluggo



Joined: Apr 17, 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 8:53 am    Post subject: Re: G2 and Reakor - patch building Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Kassen wrote:
sluggo wrote:
This sound is very common in deep house, I think maybe it comes from a Juno106.


I think that it originally came from a electric piano with tapedelay, springreverb and carefull filtering and engineering.


I think for some of the sounds you are correct. I've never tried a springreverb (or plate) on the ep/filter/delay combo, maybe this would help a lot.

As for Reaktor, it's cool and everything, but I never use the sampler stuff on it. 80% use is the synths and 20% are the drum machines.

If I was to keep Reaktor, I would need to find a G2 engine for $700. What is the going rate for a used engine these days? I'll check some classified ads.

s
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cebec



Joined: Apr 19, 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 8:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

fyi, i saw an ad from Scot Solida on kvraudio.com for a mint condition G2 KB for $1,000.
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sluggo



Joined: Apr 17, 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yes, that's the synth I'm interested in.
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Kassen
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 10:12 am    Post subject: Re: G2 and Reakor - patch building Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

sluggo wrote:

I think for some of the sounds you are correct. I've never tried a springreverb (or plate) on the ep/filter/delay combo, maybe this would help a lot.


It will. THe filter also goes *after* the delay or inside of the delay feedback path. I think deephouse traditionally borrows a lot from dub production techniques while many people that want to make it are only looking at house-style engineering.

Of cource with either the G2 or Reactor you could have most of those techniques inside of your synth, just don´t tell any oldschool dub-heads...

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paul e.



Joined: Sep 22, 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

those examples...sounds like a DX-7 to me..FM anyway..that's the 'shimmery' part..
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Afro88



Joined: Jun 20, 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Load up the G2 demo and see if this is what you're after. It's a really simple vanilla patch, but it's a starting point. Like the others have said, you may want to use some subtle fm, maybe do a custom delay with tweaked filters in the feedback loop.

But without a doubt, the G2 can do these kinds of sounds quite well.


simple chord delay.pch2
 Description:
Demo "deep house" chord patch

Download
 Filename:  simple chord delay.pch2
 Filesize:  1.54 KB
 Downloaded:  1231 Time(s)

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Roland Kuit



Joined: Sep 29, 2003
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2005 2:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I got myself Reaktor 5 and next week the Muse Receptor. Then i'll have a sort of G2 engine, but with Reaktor.......i think that will be a kinda cool!
Last edited by Roland Kuit on Sun Jul 17, 2005 1:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Afro88



Joined: Jun 20, 2004
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2005 6:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

roland kuit wrote:
I got myself Reaktor 5 and next week the Muse Reseptor. Then i'll have a sort of G2 engine, but with Reaktor.......i think that will be a kinda cool!


Wow, I'd love to hear how well Muse Reseptor works Roland. Please post about it when you get it! Very Happy
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Roland Kuit



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PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2005 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi Afro, i'm back from a short holiday. I have to play with my twin brother
(Arie Kuit-sax/Ewi) severall times at some jazz festivals. Very different music but whe'd managed to make a sort of x-over. So that will be a nice try out. I love the sample stuff from Reaktor, but the G2 and my old buddy the (classic) NM will do some hard work too in the set:)
I keep you posted about the Receptor and b.t.w. (everybody), thanks for
the nice patches i just downloaded, some are great!(Funky drums). Ace and Michael, i will post the dvd's with my music/visuals this week, Howard, your check is allready on its way:)
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sluggo



Joined: Apr 17, 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Afro88 wrote:
Load up the G2 demo and see if this is what you're after. It's a really simple vanilla patch, but it's a starting point. Like the others have said, you may want to use some subtle fm, maybe do a custom delay with tweaked filters in the feedback loop.

But without a doubt, the G2 can do these kinds of sounds quite well.


Wow, that is very cool. That's the kind of thing I'm looking for. It's amazing how hard it is to get this sound in various softsynths. The structure/programming is easy I guess (I have played a lot with saw chords), but the sound is in the filter. I have a few VA softsynths and simply cannot get close to this type of sound (except for Carbon).

BTW, exactly what does the ADR input into the filter do? Is that adding an envelope into the cutoff, where the envelope is affected by keytracking?

thanks
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Afro88



Joined: Jun 20, 2004
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

sluggo wrote:
BTW, exactly what does the ADR input into the filter do? Is that adding an envelope into the cutoff, where the envelope is affected by keytracking?


Yep, it adds a decay envelope to the filter's cutoff, giving it that "owww" sound. The knob next to where it plugs in is the amount, and the button with "50%" in it determines how much the filter tracks the keyboard.

Changing osc2 from +3 to +4 will change the chord from minor to major, or you can just delete 2 of the oscs, turn up the polyphony and play the chords yourself Smile Can't do that on the demo though unfortunately...
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sluggo



Joined: Apr 17, 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2005 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Afro88,

Do you know of any other softsynths that have this type of filter character? I also own z3ta+ and Psyn (which is another rgcaudio synth included with Cakewalk's Project5), and a Waldorf microQ. I can't really come that close to this sound.

Too be honest, the main reason why I keep Reaktor is because of this. Otherwise I don't use it that much (other than Carbon and Veirring). I don't have the time to learn synth building in Reaktor unfortunately.

I sort of had a an idea to try and re-create Carbon using another synth building software: Synthmaker. After spending 20minutes going through the Carbon filter schematic I quickly came back down to earth in realizing that even just the filter schematic would take me hours and hours and hours just to understand, let alone port.

thanks,
s
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Afro88



Joined: Jun 20, 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2005 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

To be honest, you should be able to get this kind of sound with most subtractive synths, even your Waldorf Q. Have you tried programming the Q with similar settings as my patch? It should be close, but then I've heard the Q is a bit harder sounding than most synths. z3ta+ should easily be able to get this sound too, but with 6 oscs and 8 envelopes etc., it'll take half an hour just to get 1 saw oscillator sounding Wink

I mainly use the G2 and Reaktor anyway, so I haven't played with much other stuff. Go to kvrvst.com and download some freeware subtractive synthesisers. Try to get a 3 osc one so you can tune the oscillators to the chord, or if not, make sure you play a major or minor chord on your keyboard and tune the oscillators the same as each other, and you should also turn filter tracking off if you play the chords on the keyboard.

Some synths may sound better doing this kind of sound than others, so maybe someone else can step in here... but just experiment with them, see what sounds best. And remember - well timed delay is your friend.
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sluggo



Joined: Apr 17, 2005
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Location: BC Canada

PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2005 9:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

You're right, this sound isn't that hard to get afterall.
It just so happens that PsynII, z3ta+ and the microQ (my current VA synths) all happened to be pretty lousy at it!
I downloaded demos of v-station, discovery, and synth1 and was able to get very close to what I wanted within minutes.

I guess my synths just don't have the right combination of osc and filters (most likely an issue of filter with z3ta+, as its osc are quite comprehensive and flexible).

So I decided to buy discovery...

thanks
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