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 Forum index » Clavia Nord Modular » Nord Modular G2 Discussion
More multiplexing
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selvmarcus



Joined: Feb 08, 2006
Posts: 121
Location: Berlin, Germany
G2 patch files: 39

PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 7:48 pm    Post subject: More multiplexing Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

A modified version of the 4 channels audio multiplexer
for your inspiration.

Tried to make more correct, reduce aliasing and optimize dsp count a bit.

Used a different gate-as-clock.
Replaced crossfaders by value switchers again.
Input is lowpass-filtered, output sampled & hold.

Don´t ask me why the s&h is working that way in the patch Smile

Well, not before I have some sleep.

Sounds quite harsh, though...? What do you think?

----
Marcus


4audio-ovr-bus++.pch2
 Description:
4 channels audio multiplexer with improved anti-aliasing

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blue hell
Site Admin


Joined: Apr 03, 2004
Posts: 24079
Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I split this off to a new topic, it really didn't belong in the building blocks section under "longer delays".

I'm sorry for any confusion, I may have caused but when I asked you to make a building block article out the multiplexing stuff I meant : a new topic there.

Sorry to be a bit short on this, but I'll check out the patch later, must sleep as well now.

_________________
Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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3phase



Joined: Jul 27, 2004
Posts: 1183
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I think it sounds very good for the low samplerate...
I see quite a few interesting options for that building block...
Like delay loops with 4 channels aso.

thx,
Sven
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3phase



Joined: Jul 27, 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 9:23 am    Post subject: 1 sample delay Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sorry for bringing this back to delays...but the 2 topics interact quite well Wink
And thanks god we are not in the building blocks wright now...

Problems !...

Just by a short try to go for a 4 channel looper i came along a handful problems...

first.. a single sample delay causes the demux to change the channel...
ok... easy to understand why... every second,third,fourth sample carries an own channel.

So it will be necessary to compensate for additional gimmicks in the delay line with single sample delays...

how this can be done ?... the mixers only delay one sample when you feedback them.


Second...

The clocked quad delay has 4 outputs...
when i use one of the tap outputs the demux gets unaligned and tempo dependent..even when i use 2 delays ( ok..maybe we would need 4 here?)

But ! when i use the mix output everything seems to be in sync..

I only need one delay line and as far i can tell by now it works on all speeds.. not too bad...but...
What is going on here? Is this an undocumented feature?

And the third point for now...

The memory usage... seems that the use of the delay module freezes it somehow... I had the same use 4 the delayline alone than now with all the circuit from selfmarcus. Wha is that? a bug or are there some explanations for that behavior?

Sven

Last edited by 3phase on Wed Mar 15, 2006 1:44 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Fozzie



Joined: Jun 04, 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 10:11 am    Post subject: Re: 1 ample delay Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

3phase wrote:
Sorry for bringing this back to delays...but the 2 topics interact quite well Wink
And thanks god we are not in the building blocks wright now...

Problems !...

Just by a short try to go for a 4 channel looper i came along a handful problems...

first.. a single sample delay causes the demux to change the channel...
ok... easy to understand why... every second,third,fourth sample carries an own channel.

So it will be necessary to compensate for additional gimmicks in the delay line with single sample delays...

how this can be done ?... the mixers only delay one sample when you feedback them.
Sure, just keep all delay inducing thingies out of the mux / demux part
Quote:

Second...

The clocked quad delay has 4 outputs...
when i use one of the tap outputs the demux gets unaligned and tempo dependent..even when i use 2 delays ( ok..maybe we would need 4 here?)

But ! when i use the mix output everything seems to be in sync..

I only need one delay line and as far i can tell by now it works on all speeds.. not too bad...but...
What is going on here? Is this an undocumented feature?
The feature is documented in the help function / manual: " There is also an additional fifth output with a fixed delay time at the currently selected Range."

Quote:

And the third point for now...

The memory usage... seems that the use of the delay module freezes it somehow... I had the same use 4 the delayline alone than now with all the circuit from selfmarcus. Wha is that? a bug or are there some explanations for that behavior?

Sven

Memory load is largely dependent on delay-using modules, so that's not so weird is it? Or do I miss something here?


Just a comment: In Jan's bblock thread I posted a 4x elongated delay, so you could just use the infrastructure from that patch to get your 4 channel delay. Just remove the feedback from the 4 channels. And if you change the quad delay to four identical delay units, it should work on all different delay settings. With the quad delay, it works for some settings and not for others, because the delaylenght in samples is not always dividable by four.
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ian-s



Joined: Apr 01, 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 10:58 am    Post subject: Re: 1 ample delay Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

3phase wrote:
The memory usage... seems that the use of the delay module freezes it somehow... I had the same use 4 the delayline alone than now with all the circuit from selfmarcus. Wha is that? a bug or are there some explanations for that behavior?


The MEM% is shared between zero page and delay memory, it only shows the larger of the two. So if your patch uses 70% of available delay memory, it wont show zero page % till it is greater than 70%.
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3phase



Joined: Jul 27, 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

ah ja..thanks to all...

i dont see a real point in that 5th output of the quad delay..
Anybody ever has had use for that? exept with beeing exactly on 120 bpm of cause...there it fits somehow...
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3phase



Joined: Jul 27, 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

So... my practical application no1 with the nice highspeed multiplexing...thnx again

I always wanted to something in that direction with the G2..even when i would prefer such a thing storable as gate/pitch sequence...
The only thing i really hope for new modules in future os versions.

The multiplexing trick however allows to go into the direction of a complex looper...2,7 seconds was not enough to even give it a start...
I rather use my jamman than spending the whole G2 for audio loops.

Just one slot is another story..and i like some aliasing.. i expect a 12 k version to get this even more in the direction of a sid station Wink...

I post the start patch before i mess it up...It actually would be nice to have 2 bar delya lines than can be combined and every single bar can be dubbed individually... This would require a quite complex circuitry that refreshes channels that are not into the front loop.

I made myself a simple version that shows 3 modes...play in, locked loop from bar 4. and overdub playing variable looplength.

Variation 1 is set to a 2 bar dub loop while variaton 2 jumps imideatly to
the 4 bar locked loop...so when you dub long enough you have all 4 bars written in the moment you switch to variatin 2...

I think this is pretty developable... i am just not sure yet what options would give the most playability...by chance this minimal attempt is better than all that follow Wink

But maybe somebody else like it to give it a try... Its allways pretty complex to make things musical expressiv with just a few knobs...
Its a bit like instrument design..
I also see an interesting possinbility to mash up the channels in a sequenced way.. even when it aliases like hell it might be still good for digital synth sounds Smile

Edit: forgot one thing...
The loop appears a tiny bit late to my ears why is that? Is the latencie for the keyboardsensing so high? Anybody else experiances this or have some insights why i get this impression..beside my bad playing abilitys...


4ch del v0.2.pch2
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selvmarcus



Joined: Feb 08, 2006
Posts: 121
Location: Berlin, Germany
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Glad you moved it here, Jan!

I might get the building block(s) ready tomorrow,
with (hopefully) cheaper interslot sync.


3phase:

A fixed length sample delay with a non-fitting remainder is no prob, just
rewire the channel outputs accordingly! Example: With 2 channel mux and
one sample delay, you just have to exchange the channels.

And for a 4 channel modulating delay it´s best to use a sequence
of 4 delays with identical settings, indeed.

---
Marcus
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3phase



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 12:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Wink i realized that..
Even when i would wish that reduced samplerate delays would be availible as standard modules ...
But the current developments are very interesting..
Its somehow like with the old nord modular where creativ patchers showed that the system is basically unlimited...it sometimes just needs to think around 2 corners..
I ve to admit that i was a bit lazy patcher lately... But the gift of a digital modular simulation is also its drawback... you really have to work it..
And its the only synth where i ever found the need to comunicate with other users..its a hard nut..digital..but freedom... I really like that there is some progress ...
We all still deal with the instrument and its possebilitys ..expert patchers..newbies...
You allways can find something to learn.
That the nord modular comunity is a nice one is based on this nature of the instrument...
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3phase



Joined: Jul 27, 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

So just in case..i post the final version of my 4 channel experiment here...
Its however still to short in delaytimes to have a usefull 4 channel version..2 Channels with 2 bars each might be best...

I however seem to have a bug somehow..or i am just to stupid to see something obvious...

attached patch should record on channel 4..but it just does one repeat without beeing refreshed... all other channels work...
What is going on here? user error or hidden bug that needs to be reported?

Sven


4ch del v0.9.pch2
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