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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Circuit Bending
bending Yamaha PSR-6
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dnny



Joined: Mar 12, 2005
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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2006 1:02 pm    Post subject: bending Yamaha PSR-6
Subject description: other Yamaha's too
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I got my hand on Yamaha PSR-6 and of course I'd like to bend it Smile

there are still some things I'd like to know - so i don't destroy it.

so here is the thing:
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
here are the two main chips the XE323B0 is CPU and YM2413 is the FM sound chip.
and the PCB looks like this(note:image flipped around for better viewing):
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

there is nice information of YM2413 here->YM2413 FM Operator Type-LL (OPLL) Application Manual
and as far as i understand the CPU sends bits to FM chip and the sound's are made - so if i want to make my manual bit's is it possible this way?
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
so the first switch's would chose if the value is 1 or 0 and the second switch's would select if the manual bit or the bits from CPU is used... or do i need to ad some fancy digital chips in between? i think i could also use bugbrand's randomizer :
bugbrand wrote:
so..... what I did yesterday was to attack the address lines with a simple randomising multioscillator --- 6 simple oscs going at different speeds (for random effect) made from a simple 40106 chip.


the question is will this destroy YM2413 chip ? if i feed the points D0 -D7 whit my own bit's?

thanks for any help and suggestion

daniel

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Mikmo



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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2006 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Try to check this :

http://www.circuit-bent.net/pss-270-tutorial.html

it's a bit like what you suggest, but simpler, just cut the 8 data traces between the CPU and the FM chips and insert toggle switches in them.

I did it to a Pss 140, and you can get some random patches going. The most interesting stuff is the auto accomp. and rythms they get really aleatoric. But be warned it crashes a LOT.

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dnny



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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2006 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

thanks - Mikael
after reading that i guess i want to study more the data flow - i will install leds that will indicate if the pins are high of low - and monitor this thing for a while, and then start to mes around whit it. a banana-patch bay would be nice, how about stacking data signals? is it cool or do i need to run them thought some kind of mixer?

complete newbie in digital-kind of things.

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Mikmo



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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2006 5:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Data signals are either 0 or 1 usually represented by 0V and 5V. I dont think stacking them would make sense, except that you could turn a 0 into a 1.

I thought of making 8 555 based oscilators swinging between 0 and 5 volts and putting them in the data paths, but there are some timing issues with the Yamaha FM chips, they need to have certain pins high for a very shotrt time and then they will read the 8 databits from the CPU, so it would probably not be very interesting.

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dnny



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PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2006 12:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

installed led drivers for monitoring data flow-

wires attached to YM2413
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

wires coming out from little screw hole
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

transistor station
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

the leds and transistor station
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

here is a schematic:
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
duplicate this 8 times.

here is a video of this thing running



[editor's note: just for grins, linked in the embeded video. --mosc]


next thing to do is the switches and the banana board banana

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dnny



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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2006 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

update: added switches and the mini-banana patch points

here is my messy soldering but - everything is fine i checked whit multimeter - no short circuit's Smile
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

and here is the 2mm mini-banana patch points (yellow -from CPU. green- to FM)
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

and here are switches for getting back to normal and for setting crazy settings
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

circuit-bent.net wrote:
Each switch now controls the flow of data from the FM chip to the main chip. Turn the yamaha on and select a patch (let's pull up #89 "ghost"), I usually play some keys(don't know if you have to do this or not), then turn some switches off , now select a different patch, and turn the switches back on. Now try playing the new patch. If it went well some of the data from the all patch got held up, and then inserted into the new patch making a totally different sound. Sometimes leaving the connections off will change the sounds also. I've noticed them some of the bent up patches will only work when multiple keys are played. I've heard that this will effect the drums as well, but I haven't gotten it to do much with them as of ye


after setting the bended tone - i mess around whit the banana patch -
it's sooo nice - sound samples are here soon

daniel

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mosc
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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2006 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Very cool.

I edited your post to include the embeded video. Makes this instrument more interesting, that's for sure.

Nit picking - those aren't banana jacks - they are pin jacks... Surprised

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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2006 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mosc wrote:
those aren't banana jacks - they are pin jacks... :o


I thought it were nails at first, but they are cute really - do stackable ones exist as well ?

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dnny



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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2006 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mosc wrote:


Nit picking - those aren't banana jacks - they are pin jacks... Surprised


thanks for the video linking -and thanks for correcting me -
and I'm not trying to be smart but i was miss informed by my supplier : yeinternational -banana
but anyway they are cute and quite nice for jobs like this, when you don't have much space on panel.

PS. correct me in future also. i like learning Smile

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dnny



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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2006 5:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

here is a sample of few sounds i made whit it


PSR6bend.mp3
 Description:

Download
 Filename:  PSR6bend.mp3
 Filesize:  1.07 MB
 Downloaded:  969 Time(s)


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dnny



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 1:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

recently i have got few PM's about this, so i think that by replying here rather than sending personal replies is better.
here are the questions.
mister wrote:
I have recently begun bending a Yamaha PSR-6. The only info I have found on bending for this model of keyboard was your's on this forum. I had a few questions if you don not mind. First I wanted to know how your particular approach came out (hoe pleased are you with the results). Second, I wanted some more info on your LED wiring. I have just begun learning more details on electronics and from what I saw on the forum I'm farely certain I know what you did, but more details would be nice. For example, what type of NPN did you use exactly? Also where the hell did you get those pin jacks? I have found some probes that look similar, but I don't know if there are any sockets for them. I have oredered RCA and will use those, but I like the pin jacks a lot and even if I don't use them on this project it would be cool for future work. Thank you for your time and much repect for your work from me. I hope you can afford the time to help me out. Any details you can give would kick ass.


sponge wrote:
hi there, i saw on forum that you have successfully bend the yamaha psr-6. i picked one up the other day from a charity shop. im a little confused about what you were trying to do with it... sounded very cool though! would you be willing to tell me where the bends you found were, and what the LED / transistor circuits were for? i've found a couple of bends, but i've only bent one thing before, and that was a cheap effects pedal.


so here it comes.

lets start whit the schematics and pics:
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
here are the main chips from the "solder side".
red dots are points D0 - D7 of the FM chip YM2413
and the blue dots are points D0 - D7 of the CPU chip XE323B0
yellow lines indicate where you need to cut the traces.

here is the YM2413 chip Pin Assignment:
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

here is the schematic:
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
you need to ad this circuit to all eight points (D0 to D0, D1 to D1 ...)

the transistors i used are C2389
- but you can use any general type NPN transistor. experiment whit the ones you have.


the bends i made are
1. 8 switches to control data flow
2. 8LEDs to monitor the data flow
3. data-patch bay to patch data

haven't had much time to play whit my Yamaha but i must say that I'm pleased whit the results.

the method described in Kevin Rees site is good start.
here are some of my own bends that you can hear in the sample:
start whit sound 40, turn D0 off, change to sound 50 and turn the D0 on - start playing.

start whit sound 40, turn D7 off, change to sound 50 and turn the D7 on - start playing.

start whit sound 40, turn D0 off, change to sound 89 and turn the D0 on - start playing.

as you can now imagine there are MANY combinations .
after i have set a sound. i start patching - but that's not that easy - the monitor helps in this - but it crashes a lot - by trial and error you will learn Smile

the D4 is used to trigger the sounds so if you have that turned off, nothing happens -

the pin jacks i got from YEinternational but they only serve you in Finland, Russia and the Baltics. the pin jacks are made by Hirschmann. so maybe if you ask your local supplier if they have those 2mm pin jacks? they can arrange something.

about the LED data monitor.
every time one of the points D0 -D7 goes high, LED D0-D7 goes on.
so by looking the LED' s blink you can see the data flow and its easier to learn patching when you actually see whats going on in the inputs of the chip.

hope this helps

for more questions don't hesitate to post it here.

daniel

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mister



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 5:38 am    Post subject:   Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Laughing Very Happy Razz
thank you, thank you. That was a perfect response. answered all my little questions and more. I look foward to this bend project greatly!
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dnny



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 8:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

welcome mister to electro-music.com forum - I'm glad that we have new members that are interested in bending
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mister



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 6:13 am    Post subject:   Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread


THANKS DNNY!
After 14 hours of work I have finally finished my PSR-6, complete with new paint job. I'm calling it the pisser. I will post pictures as soon as their developed. Everything is functioning wonderfully and your right, the possibilities are endless! I especially love the sounds I can get from the rhythms. When in this mode glitching it out produces awesome rhythmic distortion and noise.

I remember playing this thing through an old guitar pedal and it beefed it up a lot. So I'm going to try and wire and mount an old distortion or phaser pedal into the housing. Should be a simple task in terms of wiring, but the mounting will take some thought. Any ideas or suggestions in this matter. Perhaps a cheap pedal you'd recommend.

BACK TO THE GLITCH PISSER I GO!!!!!!!
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mister



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 9:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

pics of the gLitCh pIssEr




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mister



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

sounds! sounds! sounds!
some quick sound bites recorded on my lunch break.


pisser1.mp3
 Description:
rhythms and noise

Download
 Filename:  pisser1.mp3
 Filesize:  1.55 MB
 Downloaded:  803 Time(s)


pisser2.mp3
 Description:
bubbles and bleeps

Download
 Filename:  pisser2.mp3
 Filesize:  679.46 KB
 Downloaded:  655 Time(s)

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dnny



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

NICE . really nice . i love the way you have the LED monitor switches and the patch points in rows.

is the one extra switch for the monitor on/off? or what?

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mosc
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quite impressive sounds you can get out of that little thingie. Thanks for posting.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well, it is FM after all, it could sound like anything.

Shocked Very Happy Very Happy
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dnny



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PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2006 3:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mister wrote:

I especially love the sounds I can get from the rhythms. When in this mode glitching it out produces awesome rhythmic distortion and noise.


could you write some hints for the switch positions and what exactly you made to get the rhythm section flip. or maybe some guidelines even. that would be great and make this thread even more informative for someone who might want to bend Yamaha PSR-6

mister wrote:

... Perhaps a cheap pedal you'd recommend.

i haven't got any pedal experience but try whit what you have. I'm sure you will figure out something that pleases you.

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Pehr



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PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2006 2:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Does anyone know if the PSR-3 can be bent the same way? Confused
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2006 5:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Pehr wrote:
Does anyone know if the PSR-3 can be bent the same way? Confused


well PSR-3 is based on the same FM synthesis. so if you open it up and see whats inside... it might look quite similar to PSR-6 and might use even the same FM chip YM2413.

... open it and post a pic here. i would be interested to see whats inside

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2006 5:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

dnny wrote:
Pehr wrote:
Does anyone know if the PSR-3 can be bent the same way? Confused


well PSR-3 is based on the same FM synthesis. so if you open it up and see whats inside... it might look quite similar to PSR-6 and might use even the same FM chip YM2413.

... open it and post a pic here. i would be interested to see whats inside


I don't have a PSR-3, I just found an online auction here. Rolling Eyes

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dnny



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PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2006 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Pehr wrote:

I don't have a PSR-3, I just found an online auction here. Rolling Eyes


well i got my PSR-6 for 35EUR...
take a look of the PSR-3 owners manual...

maybe you get this one and then you can write a new topic : inside PSR-3 Smile

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 5:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
is the one extra switch for the monitor on/off? or what?


yeah that's what it for, yes.

Quote:
could you write some hints for the switch positions and what exactly you made to get the rhythm section flip. or maybe some guidelines even. that would be great and make this thread even more informative for someone who might want to bend Yamaha PSR-6


the pin controls (IE:switch, monitor light, patch points for each pin) are not ordered from 0-1. I put them in my own logical order starting with 4 because it is the pin responsible for triggering sounds (thanks to you I know this Wink ) I've written down some "patches" and I'll let you know more ASAP. here's what I remember at the moment.

patch pin CPU pin 4 to FM pin 5 (or vice versa) and turn off 4's switch (or 5's switch). now play around with different presets. I get many of them to create some sort of split pad, where the first 2 octaves had a bass tone and the last two made some random pad or higher pitched sound completely different from the bass tone. sometimes it makes a difference which pad your on when you make the patch and switch flip. this is also the same type of patching I made when playing with the rhythms. it allowed me to, in some cases, turn certain aspects of the beat on/off by using switches 2-5. and when in fingered mode flipping specific switches and than switching patches will change the tones being accessed.

my best advice to anyone who makes this machine is to play around. learning the PSR-6's personality first hand is fun and will insure that you remember the processes in creating your sounds. also it will give you new ideas that we've never thought of!

I recommend this instrument to anyone who finds one. everyone has seen bent casios but there arn't many times you see these and I like the sounds of Yamaha better any who. Again thanks for the advising DNNY.
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