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 Forum index » Clavia Nord Modular » Nord Modular G2 Discussion
Is the NORD G2 output level very low?
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Chris D.



Joined: May 03, 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 11:06 am    Post subject: Is the NORD G2 output level very low?
Subject description: Not enough volume even with a 1000 watt amp!
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I'm playing with a very loud group, and I'm running the nord, 1-2 into a stero PA using bose 402's with a 60 W per side stereo rack mount amp. 3-4 are going out to a bass amp.

Not getting enough volume out of the PA, I tried out a more powerful AMP, The volume wasn't significantly greater, even though the amp was 10X the watt rating.

Baffled, we tried different speakers, and while louder, they still weren't any where near what we expected.

I used some factory presets for these tests, so I'm sure the signal coming out of the NORD outputs 1-2 was pretty hot.

Any ideas about what might be happening?

CD

CD
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cebec



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

yes, some people have commented on this in the past. make sure the patch level is all the way up, the master level (hardware) knob is all the way up and try the +6 dB boost button the 2-out module. the factory presets aren't always adjusted in this manner
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elektro80
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

No matter what a, 1K watt PA dedicated to the G2 should definitively have some cutting power.
Try a compressor and see what you get. The patches might be too lethargic.

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sheridan



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

No, it's not low if all your levels are up. Check the main patch volume (CC #7) - this is often set lowish. If that is full up, look at the meters on the output module - if the levels are low you can click on the Pad button to increase the output by 6 dB. If it is still low, maybe there is an amp or mixer in the patch set low. Finally, you could always add and amp module or two to boost the levels.

If however, your output module meters are showing red but the level still sounds low then you need to raise the gain/trim on the mixer/amp that the G2 is connected to... basically the input gain on my G2 channels on my mixer are set to approximately the same as for my other keyboards/sound modules, so when the output module meters in the G2 are in the red, the mixer meters also show red, ie. full output.

Oooops, I was just beaten to it... ah well, I'll post it anyway.

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elektro80
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Bose 402?
http://www.emionline.com/products1/bose/402/402install.html

Get a real PA.

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ian-s



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 12:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Is the NORD G2 output level very low?
Subject description: Not enough volume even with a 1000 watt amp!
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Chris D. wrote:
3-4 are going out to a bass amp.


3-4 outputs are not used unless specifically patched.
As well as lowish output levels, come have commented on the velocity curve not being suitable for a softer touch.

And don't forget, 10Xpower is only a 10dB increase in perceived volume.
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tombola



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I've always found the G2 level irriitatingly low. it's MUCH lower than a Waldorf Pulse, and definitely lower than a DSI Evolver or a PodXT - was going to ask if there's a pot or anything inside which can be tweaked to boost the output stage.
The unbalanced outputs obviously don't help.
I have everything plugged into a patchbay and into the inputs on my soundcard, even with it properly set up for a mix of balanced and unbalanced signals, I find the G2 unusually low, across all patches.

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monobass



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

tombola wrote:
I've always found the G2 level irriitatingly low. it's MUCH lower than a Waldorf Pulse


The Pulse is well hot though... mine is anyway. I must admit I hadn't really noticed that about the G2 but then i don't use much else at the moment.

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mosc
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I have found the G2 output levels to be low too, but not so low to be unusable or to require a dedicated preamp.
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Kassen
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

elektro80 wrote:
No matter what a, 1K watt PA dedicated to the G2 should definitively have some cutting power.
Try a compressor and see what you get. The patches might be too lethargic.


I suspect something along those lines too.

Clavia's presets most certainly aren't aimed at that sort of application, I suspect psychoacoustics. Any simple little mixer should be able to deal with any added pre-amplification that might be needed but beware of driving a amp's input into the red; It's usually preferable to take a better sound or a larger amp since overdriving amps leads to speaker damage due to excessive high frequencies and in extreme cases blown fuzes.

The output is too low compared to many things but not so low as to pose a real problem in a larger system. Amplification alone can't usually cure preceived loudness within very loud band situations, at least not without doing extra harm.

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paul e.



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

is this an impedance thing ?

what are the PA amps inputs ?

what is the OHM rating of the speakers..of the amp...?

watt rating of the speakers?

a 8ohm speaker drawing on a 2ohm amp will not give you full power at all, for example

even a quiet synth will be loud enough in a decently rated PA...for sure

i am guessing you have mismatched impedance

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3phase



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

the g2 otputs dont deliver full line level..they are -10 db and therefore need a preamp (mixixing desk channel) to drive a poweramp
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elektro80
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Uh... Shocked

Is it really that simple... our friend has plugged his G2 directly into the power amp line inputs??

Nahh.. he would never do that.. or?
Shocked

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Derek Cook



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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

FWIW I have a Nord G2 Engine, a Yamaha EX5, Motif ES Rack, FS1R and A4000 all plugged into a Berhinger line mixer, and it's the FS1R that I have to boost above the others.

Apart from the FS1R, the mixer gains for all the other units are identical.

So I find the Nord G2 engine output comprable to the the other units, and sometimes. This is after tweaking the patch gains in the Nord box as already discussed above, and occasionally for some patches I need to set the +6dB pads.

But once that is done the Nord can certainly be heard, and all I use is a little old H&H amplifier driving a Scott speaker cab. That combination is more than powerful enough for the small pub and hotel type venues that I've played.
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varice



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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Many of the G2 factory presets are not patched to take full advantage of the available headroom.

The G2 outputs can deliver a signal of almost 8 volts peak to peak before clipping! Is this below average for most synths?

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Axiom



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 12:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

A "quick and dirty" solution is to add more 2Out and link them together. This will boost your audio output.

Check the example file.

Luca


BoostExample.pch2
 Description:
Raise G2 volume using more 2Out linked together.

Download
 Filename:  BoostExample.pch2
 Filesize:  1.04 KB
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nuts



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 2:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Do you solve your problem ChrisD ?

I had the same trouble with the nord rack 3 mixed between old analog gear et other digital synth & sampler. The preamps on the mixing desk where always set close to the max but for some soundscapes or sounds made with filters resonance it was still way to low.

I sold it now (not for this reason) and i was thinking of a g2 engine + bitstream 3x but i don't really want to have the same level problem. Confused

In comparison the microwave XTr sounds really louder.
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Derek Cook



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 7:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

nuts wrote:
Do you solve your problem ChrisD ?

I had the same trouble with the nord rack 3 mixed between old analog gear et other digital synth & sampler. The preamps on the mixing desk where always set close to the max but for some soundscapes or sounds made with filters resonance it was still way to low.

I sold it now (not for this reason) and i was thinking of a g2 engine + bitstream 3x but i don't really want to have the same level problem. Confused

In comparison the microwave XTr sounds really louder.


I have a G2 engine, and once I've tweaked the patches (including presets) to my taste, I've had no problem with lack of volume!
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capfindus



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well, my G2X has the lowest output off all my keyboards...
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nuts



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks for your answers, the biggest problems for me is to have an acceptable recording level to avoid noise or "afterprocess" but i imagine there is lot of ways to increase volume via patching in the G2.

I tried on the software demo to chain 2 output modules and it works well but don't know what it really do on the G2 , does it distort the sound ?
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seraph
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

capfindus wrote:
Well, my G2X has the lowest output off all my keyboards...

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X-Electric



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

In Poland they were called "Kapitan Igloo"...
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Fozzie



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 11:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

nuts wrote:
Thanks for your answers, the biggest problems for me is to have an acceptable recording level to avoid noise or "afterprocess" but i imagine there is lot of ways to increase volume via patching in the G2.

I tried on the software demo to chain 2 output modules and it works well but don't know what it really do on the G2 , does it distort the sound ?

IMHO you really don't have to be afraid of noisyness with a G2, it is a synth that can sound very polished (depending on the patching of course). Maybe there are issues here with people trying to record the G2 on a +4dBu input? I always use a normal line level input on my soundcard (-10dBu), and it is fine. Can get full range audio dynamics; noise is no problem whatsoever.
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nuts



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 4:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

ok thanks, i will listen to that in 3 days the G2 engine is ordered. Razz
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Stanley Pain



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 7:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

am i the only person to find the G2 output more than adequate? i know that i patch loud, for the sake of it (a terrible habit i'm slowly breaking), but even on the factory presets i find that i have to turn the main volume down a touch.

it's going into my PC via a Terratec EWS 88 MT, and i record into sx3.

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