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 Forum index » Instruments and Equipment » Modular Synthesis
microtonal pitch quantizer?
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astroid power-up!



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 11:14 am    Post subject: microtonal pitch quantizer? Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

is there anything like this?

maybe serge or buchla has a random module somewhere in there...

also, what are people's favorite voltage quantizers, and why?

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Jari Jokinen



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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

If you need only evenly spaced intervals (like quarter-tones), you can attenuate or amplify the quantizer output... I would like to know a solution for more elaborate tunings.

Best regards
Jari Jokinen
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seraph
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Jari Jokinen wrote:
I would like to know a solution for more elaborate tunings.


Could something like the MOTM-650 4-Channel MIDI-CV converter help?
arrow http://synthtech.com/motm650.html

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ndkent



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Evenly spaced or user defined intervals are two different goals. Though obviously if one can user define intervals then one can define them to be even.

I'd say this sort of thing, especially the latter is much easier to do with digital or hybrid technology. I don't know of any off the shelf mostly analog solution.

You could likely code what you want into a PSIM - that no longer made Frac module with a CPU in it. Or you could calculate and write a wavetable for the Blacet MiniWave and use that as a quantitizer.

One not very cost effective way is to get an analog sequencer that can tanslate voltage to step #. Obviously you are limited to the number of steps the sequencer has

Last edited by ndkent on Sun Feb 25, 2007 11:36 am; edited 1 time in total
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astroid power-up!



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 12:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

the attenuation idea is interesting. the midi convertor one may not be such a good one for my personal (eventual, of course, i haven't started a modular), because i do want something that in the voltage path, not converted into digits.

regarding attenuation- at least the doepfer unit has presets for chromatic/major/minor/5th/6th/7th chords-so attenuating would throw the tonality off.

what i do want is easy access to 19tet, 31tet. the gentle ones that are very similar to 12tet.

all this is why i was asking about serge and buchla-to see if someone who uses one could talk about their approaches to tuning.

using digital or analog lookup tables would be good, if the resoultion is good enough, but like anything modular, i want to be able to drive it up into the audio range. i know the doepfer unit can be driven up to 500hz before it starts aliasing. Very Happy

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ndkent



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I have the Doepfer, it's a good value. I wouldn't get hung up on what the 7ths etc. will do, just don't use that option and it's not an issue. Just leave it in 12 intervals and then attenuate the results and you will get your #tone e.t. intervals.

It sounds like it might be easy to build something like a little screwdriver turned trimmer connected to a cable - you know something that won't easily be turned like a regular pot that you could just plug into your quantitizer output and get the attenuation you need to produce #x even intervals.

I don't think Serge or Buchla produced any magic boxes to directly do micro/alternate tuning (and I'd suspect if Buchla did it would be digital). I'd think the 2 options talked about tend to cover most of the ground. Either attenuate a 12 tone quantitized output or CV address a step on a step sequencer with the voltage value for the tone manually set to whatever you want for each step.
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astroid power-up!



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

well, the chord extentions are pertinent to what i want to do.

so, let me ask regarding the doepfer, would it be possible to send a signal through the 2nd quantizer, and then attenuate the first to set the tones to something like 19tet? that'd be having my cake and eating it too.

the only drawback i can see is that the tonality types are on switches. looks like i'll end up with a 3u rack of tonailty controls, to switch between major/minor...

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Funky40



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

for experimenting, the Papareil Midi CV interface could be interesting.
You can programm every note.

http://m.bareille.free.fr/mcv876/mcv876.html


i have it in the semtex but i never tryed to programm it in such a way.
Maybe just download the Editor und have a look.
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GovernorSilver



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

My guess is the MOTM-650 is your best choice, because as I understand it, it supports the full MIDI Tuning Standard. This is powerful stuff, because it means you can tell it to change its tuning with MIDI messages! Check out the standard here:

http://www.midi.org/about-midi/tuning.shtml

That Papareil unit only lets you tune 48 notes. The MOTM will let you tune all 128 MIDI notes.
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ndkent



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I think the Doepfer is just latching some specific steps out of the 12 it does in hardware that they (not you) choose. It is fairly cool they included something like that, I'd not run into it as a feature before ijn hardware, but it is holding certain steps, not some more exotic variable quantitization that achieves those results. Quantitizing twice seems to me as just undoing the 19tet back to 12tet so that won't get you anywhere if I'm following your goal.

I'll agree with the others that if you start getting very specific about what you are trying to do you are going to have to use a digital device barring access to a sizable enough voltage addressed step sequencer. The MOTM converter surely won't take a continious voltage and quantitize it. It's taking a midi key # and assigning a voltage to be output by it. It will enable one to play micro tuning from a keyboard which opens up a lot of composition areas but it doesn't process any CV like a quantitizer does.
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GovernorSilver



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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

astroid power-up! wrote:
the attenuation idea is interesting. the midi convertor one may not be such a good one for my personal (eventual, of course, i haven't started a modular), because i do want something that in the voltage path, not converted into digits.


Can't a way be found where you use the MOTM MIDI-CV only for defined pitches and keep everything else in the voltage domain?

There are over 3000 tunings at the Scala website alone. Your life will be so much easier if you can easily transmit tunings over MIDI to your modular.
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Rob



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 5:06 pm    Post subject: Re: microtonal pitch quantizer? Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

astroid power-up! wrote:
is there anything like this?

maybe serge or buchla has a random module somewhere in there...

also, what are people's favorite voltage quantizers, and why?


A simple solution is to use a sequencer where a control voltage defines the current 'step'. Limitation would be the number of steps/knobs available. E.g. have a look at the specs of the Doepfer A-152 (http://www.doepfer.de/a152.htm), connecting eight pots to the inputs would allow you to tune the eight pots to a macrotonal scale that you can later transpose by adding the keyboard CV to a certain key. Those pots could be a couple of A-176 modules.

I think that the Serge TKB sequencer also also be able to program microtonal scales.

/Rob
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doctorvague



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 2:23 am    Post subject: Re: microtonal pitch quantizer? Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

astroid power-up! wrote:


also, what are people's favorite voltage quantizers, and why?


Hey, first post here. Have you checked out the Modcan quantizer?
http://www.modcan.com/bseries/modulesb.html
It's the 55B and has 2 separate quantizer sections and many scales (not microtonal though). It's got CV transpose and CV scale select. I dig mine.

Phil
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astroid power-up!



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i did look at that modcan one. looks amazing.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 12:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I don't know if I am OT but few days ago I was able to retune a Serge Modular using LMSO and a Doepfer MCV4. it worked flawlessly.
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astroid power-up!



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PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 4:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

not ot, seraph,

the only problem is that i would need a midi interface for my osX computer. i use mainly an os9 and a windows xp computer. scala left me kinda baffled (and mainly, i'm scared to mess up the delicate balance of my windows box)

thanks rob, somehow i have overlooked that module. that's like the beloved control sequencer in the g2, no?

speaking of the g2, i'm wondering what the best way to send ratios over midi would be. i guess the partial quantizer. hmm. much exploration to do. if i could just get the ratios, i may forget all about equal temperments.

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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 8:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

astroid power-up! wrote:
speaking of the g2, i'm wondering what the best way to send ratios over midi would be. i guess the partial quantizer. hmm. much exploration to do. if i could just get the ratios, i may forget all about equal temperments.


I suspect normaly this would be done by sending note and pitch bend info, but the G2 is not able to send pitch bend messages from within a patch Crying or Very sad

So to send ratios you'd have to do something custom, like sending out two CC or two note values, but then the receiver won't be able to do something with it - unless it can be customized.

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GovernorSilver



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PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

seraph wrote:
I don't know if I am OT but few days ago I was able to retune a Serge Modular using LMSO and a Doepfer MCV4. it worked flawlessly.


Wow! That's good to know. The Doepfer is much cheaper than the MOTM MIDI-CV converter that Nonoctave.com advocates.
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GovernorSilver



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PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

astroid power-up! wrote:

speaking of the g2, i'm wondering what the best way to send ratios over midi would be. i guess the partial quantizer. hmm. much exploration to do. if i could just get the ratios, i may forget all about equal temperments.


If you're going to try the above, won't you be forced to get a MIDI interface for your computer, even though you said you don't want to get one? Yes, it is possible to force a tuning onto a synth by using MIDI pitch bend messages. It will work best if the synth supports the full resolution and not just the MSB of the pitch bend message.

I have an idea, inspired by the work done on DX7->G2 and G1->G2 patch conversion by others, for an external application that will read a Scala tuning file and produce a G2 patch file (.pch or whatever). The idea was also partially inspired by dasz's microtuning patch for the G2 (search for "Fun with microtuning" in the Nord Modular forum).

But first, I must continue learning how to operate the G2 and get started learning Python if I want to work with the folks who are working on g2ools.
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astroid power-up!



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PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i have midi interfaces for my os9 and windows computers, but not for my osX computer. three computers, two midi interfaces.

currently my system is a g2 for sequencing, a kenton 2000 for midi/cv, and a small analogue systems unit. i haven't had the last two for very long.

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seraph
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

astroid power-up! wrote:
three computers, two midi interfaces.

I would try to get rid of those 3 computers and get a MacIntel Wink

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

astroid power-up! wrote:
i have midi interfaces for my os9 and windows computers, but not for my osX computer. three computers, two midi interfaces.

currently my system is a g2 for sequencing, a kenton 2000 for midi/cv, and a small analogue systems unit. i haven't had the last two for very long.


Oh, I see, though

There is an OS9 version of LMSO. You may have to contact XJ Scott directly for details. Then your problem is solved:

LMSO running on OS9 -> Kenton MIDI-to-CV box -> Analog Systems modular

This is assuming the Kenton box will play as nicely with LMSO as the Doepfer did for Seraph.
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mono-poly



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PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

This Is my Favorite!

edited link - seraph
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