electro-music.com   Dedicated to experimental electro-acoustic
and electronic music
 
    Front Page  |  Articles  |  Radio
 |  Media  |  Forum  |  Wiki  |  Links  |  Store
Forum with support of Syndicator RSS
 FAQFAQ   CalendarCalendar   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   LinksLinks
 RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in  Chat RoomChat Room 
Live streaming at radio.electro-music.com

  host / artist show at your time
  Rob Adventures in Sound
Please visit the chat
 Forum index » How-tos
that bouncing ball delay effect
Post new topic   Reply to topic
Page 1 of 1 [12 Posts]
View unread posts
View new posts in the last week
Mark the topic unread :: View previous topic :: View next topic
Author Message
play



Joined: Feb 08, 2004
Posts: 490
Location: behind the mustard
Audio files: 2

PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2004 2:29 pm    Post subject: that bouncing ball delay effect Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I call it exponential delay or dynamic delay depending on the flavor. I've attacked this problem from many different angles mostly using reaktor. It's actually quite simple. You can use any sequential curve to create the delay. In reaktor this could be an event table driven by a ramp oscillator with variable rate. The read can be triggered by a gate signal and the length of the read controlled using a simple time to frequency conversion. So the ramp runs through the various table values which control your delay and you can change the curve live. Alternately, you can use a decay envelope to drive the table.

Another method is to still use the envelope but instead of reading sequential table data to get the delay times you use a simple algorithm. For instance, use an attack-decay envelope to control the frequency of a pulse oscillator whose amplitude spikes trigger sample playback. A long attack time will give you that exponential division of time because of the icreasing frequency of the oscillator. Add some filtering and slight delay between multiple samplers and you're starting to sound like autechre. Or multiply the envelope by a controllable constant to produce delay times for a simple feedback delay. This gives you the felxibility to control the maximum delay time in milliseconds or synchronized with a tempo.

There are a lot more variations on this but there's basically two methods: one is to use a curve to control the triggering of sample playback and the other is to use a curve to control delay times in a feedback delay. I'm sure there are some other broad methods but these are the ones I've messed around with.

I'll post a couple of reaktor machines illustrating these techniques soon ::)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
play



Joined: Feb 08, 2004
Posts: 490
Location: behind the mustard
Audio files: 2

PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2004 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

here's one using delay and one using sample triggering.


exp_delay.zip
 Description:

Download
 Filename:  exp_delay.zip
 Filesize:  56.99 KB
 Downloaded:  347 Time(s)

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
mosc
Site Admin


Joined: Jan 31, 2003
Posts: 17553
Location: Allentown, PA
Audio files: 123
G2 patch files: 60

PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2004 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Is the zip file a Reaktor file? Can you upload an mp3?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address
play



Joined: Feb 08, 2004
Posts: 490
Location: behind the mustard
Audio files: 2

PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2004 10:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

sure. here's an mp3. it's not very exciting though. the zip file has 2 reaktor machines. someone was asking about it on a different thread so I through together a couple of general examples.


exp_delay_demo.mp3
 Description:

Download
 Filename:  exp_delay_demo.mp3
 Filesize:  628.78 KB
 Downloaded:  488 Time(s)

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Kruge



Joined: Dec 28, 2003
Posts: 106
Location: Bonn, Germany, Europe, Earth, Sol System, Milky Way, Universe, Multiverse etc...

PostPosted: Sun Mar 14, 2004 1:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hint:

If you believe that fx like the bouncing ball delay, as you call it, are something *special* you never ever should have a look at Cool Edit - the effects available there might blow you away... Wink

_________________
brielmusik myspace reverb nation twitter
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
play



Joined: Feb 08, 2004
Posts: 490
Location: behind the mustard
Audio files: 2

PostPosted: Sun Mar 14, 2004 3:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

actually, cool edit was my first audio processing software. I love it and use it probably more than any other program especially since my laptop is a piece of shniz and so it's hard for me to do certain things realtime. The first tracks I ever made were all cut and paste.

the reason I posted this thread was because someone was asking about this particular effect in the movie music thread. It seemed like an opportunity for some fun nerdiness as well as to maybe demystify this simple technique that's becoming somewhat of a fad. I mean, I built 2 machines in reaktor that do it in under ten minutes. There's no black art. It's just linear math, envelopes.

so rock on! cooledit rules. I haven't seen audition yet but it appears to be the exact same thing as coolpro2 but with a different splash screen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Kruge



Joined: Dec 28, 2003
Posts: 106
Location: Bonn, Germany, Europe, Earth, Sol System, Milky Way, Universe, Multiverse etc...

PostPosted: Sun Mar 14, 2004 3:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Very Happy
_________________
brielmusik myspace reverb nation twitter
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
cloudscapes



Joined: Feb 09, 2004
Posts: 99
Location: Montreal

PostPosted: Sun Mar 14, 2004 9:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Pretty cool, thanks! Very Happy Up till now I've been using a VST for that effect. I give this one a try once I'm more familier with Reaktor.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
mosc
Site Admin


Joined: Jan 31, 2003
Posts: 17553
Location: Allentown, PA
Audio files: 123
G2 patch files: 60

PostPosted: Sun Mar 14, 2004 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks for posting the mp3. Now I know what you are talking about. I've heard this in a lot of IDM stuff. It's a good effect for that kind of music. I'm still going though exercizes on the G2, but that's a good one to add to the bag of tricks. Everything in my kit must be for live performance, ya know. singing
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address
zynthetix



Joined: Jun 12, 2003
Posts: 838
Location: nyc
Audio files: 10
G2 patch files: 13

PostPosted: Sun Mar 14, 2004 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Miscellaneous Autechre pieces and "Bucephalus Bouncing Ball" by Aphex Twin immediately come to mind anytime I hear such delay effects... Regardless, nice reaktor structures. I found your post and the models quite informative.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Anig Browl



Joined: May 05, 2004
Posts: 20
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2004 12:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

noiseusse wrote:
so rock on! cooledit rules. I haven't seen audition yet but it appears to be the exact same thing as coolpro2 but with a different splash screen.


It is; I was using it 'for the first time' on a movie shoot last weekend, but I've been using CE forever as well and I couldn't see anything different other than the brand. Good on Adobe for getting it more visibility, though now it isn't such a 'secret weapon' any more...I've always been amused that the crowd goes for Sound Froge or Wavelab when CE is so clearly superior Wink

I too like the bouncing ball effect (actually i feel like I could have written most of your post noiseusse...I did my first track in CE in a stereo edit as well). I had a random inspiration the other day and discovered that my Yamaha RM1x does this rather well, as it has a nifty little feature in the MIDI delay screen that lets you specify exactly how many MIDI ticks to lengthen or shorten the delay line with each repeat (up to 99). You can change the pitch and velocity offsets as well.

Despite only having a hamstrung version of the rather crap XG architecture and mediocre effects on the tone generator side, that blue box has so many neat little sequencer tricks that it'll always be a part of my rig (unless I get its big sampler brother). It lends itself very well to electro-type stuff. I anticipate some serious fun once I hook it up the G2 and start building MIDI loops...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
play



Joined: Feb 08, 2004
Posts: 490
Location: behind the mustard
Audio files: 2

PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2004 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
...I've always been amused that the crowd goes for Sound Froge or Wavelab when CE is so clearly superior :wink:


no doubt. i only hope that future versions will not become overbloated by adobe's plan to add lots of video support. i like having simple, fast tools that are specialized for their task and adobe has a tendency to write bloated software. hopefully CE2 won't be the last good version
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic
Page 1 of 1 [12 Posts]
View unread posts
View new posts in the last week
Mark the topic unread :: View previous topic :: View next topic
 Forum index » How-tos
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
emSynth

Please support our site. If you click through and buy from
our affiliate partners, we earn a small commission.


Forum with support of Syndicator RSS
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
Copyright © 2003 through 2009 by electro-music.com - Conditions Of Use