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 Forum index » Clavia Nord Modular » Nord Modular G2 Discussion
Nord G2 Patching
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tee



Joined: Mar 04, 2004
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Location: Oxford, PA

PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2004 3:31 pm    Post subject: Nord G2 Patching Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

A few of Electro-music’s members have received their Nord G2’s, so I thought ask a few questions about it. I use Reaktor where you build your own instruments and thereafter create your own sound within your instrument. In the G2 do you creating a sound patch with possibility for tweaking or do you create an instrument with various morph groups, which are then assigned to the knobs for real time manipulation? For example, can you change oscillators from the keyboard or do you have to do that from the patch editor?
I hope that I have formulated a question that is understandable. If not post a question for clarification.
TEE - an introduction of myself will come!
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seraph
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2004 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

you should check this thread
http://electro-music.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=43
Very Happy

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mosc
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2004 7:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Nord G2 Patching Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

tee wrote:
For example, can you change oscillators from the keyboard or do you have to do that from the patch editor?
I hope that I have formulated a question that is understandable. If not post a question for clarification.
TEE - an introduction of myself will come!

I've looked at Reaktor. It is very powerful, but when you get down to the level where you acutally design you own synthesis algorithms, then it becomes very arcane and difficult to use. The G2 is designed from the bottom up for users to creat their own patches. The modules are easy to hook up compared to Reaktor. The modules range from a simple switch, through complex 16 stage sequencers, and frequency shifters. You can really do whatever your imagination demands.

As for playability, there is where it really shines. Virtually any control can be brought up to the control surface's 8 rotary encoders and switches. There are 15 pages of these knob assignments, for a total of 120 parameters. Thus you can have immediate control of whatever you want.

Reaktor is stronger in some ways because it has access to various synthesis technologies that aren't available in the G2. Also, it has a built-in sequencer function. That said, the G2's performance interface really is in a class by itself.

Is this the kind of response you were looking for?
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tee



Joined: Mar 04, 2004
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Location: Oxford, PA

PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2004 7:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Does this mean that I for example can create a NL with all it's various elements and route the sounds the same way. Or should I say, can I create a NL in the patch editor and then assigning different tasks to the knobs and it's pages. I would not have the same user interface of the G2, but through changing the knobs functions I will have NL.

I might making things sound more complicated than it is. In essence I guess I am asking. The patch I make in the editor is just a the routing of the sound. After that I model various sound from that particllar routing and store it as a preset?

As you wrote Mosc, the G2 seem to really user friendly as Reaktor can be quite tedious. I'm truely leaning towards ordering a G2 because of it great possibilities, and maybe because I'm Swedish too Wink
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2004 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The answer to all that is yes.

I don't know the NL architecture, but I'd bet it can be modeled on the G2. I'm familiar with the MiniMoog and that could be exactly modeled. You could route very knob and switch to the G2's control surface. Of course, if you wanted a polyphonic MiniMoog, that would be trival. Wink
Quote:
In essence I guess I am asking. The patch I make in the editor is just a the routing of the sound. After that I model various sound from that particllar routing and store it as a preset?

Let's clarify this. On the right is a screen scrape of the G2 editor showing a very simple patch I've made for illustative purposes.
You can assign and of the knobs or buttons on the screen to the G2 control surface. I've chosen to assign the knobs to four pages, A thru D for, Oscillator, LFO, Filter, and Envelope respectively. One can tweak all of the knobs from the computer screen or the assigned knobs from the control surface. There are only certain ones I will want to use in performance.

The settings of these parameters in the patch (whether assigned to knobs or not) are stored with the patch in the 8 variations.

Varitation 1
Here's what the control surface of the G2 looks like for variation 1:

You can't see it very well, but the LCDs above the knobs provide labels so you can easilly tell what each knob does. The variations are selected by pushing buttons along the bottom near the middle.

Even with this simple patch, you can see you can get a great deal of variety of sounds. Depending of the frequency of the LFO, how much LFO is fed to the FM input of the oscillator and filter, waveforms, type of filter, pitch setting of filter, resonance, envelope settings etc. Different settings can be stored in the variations, but the basic connectivity remains unchanged for the entire patch.

Variation 2

When you change variations, the knobs instantly change on the control surface. Also, you can also have the variations change automatically from within the patch via signals control signals, say from a sequencer, or from external midi.

Hope this helps...
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tee



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PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2004 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thank you! You answered my question.
I presume that old modular patches can be used in the G2?
TEE
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mosc
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2004 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

tee wrote:
Thank you! You answered my question.
I presume that old modular patches can be used in the G2?
TEE

Unfortunately, no. mad, short circuit

If you are from Sweden, then you have to get a G2. It's famous for "Swedish Thinking". Laughing
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Tim Kleinert



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PostPosted: Sun Mar 14, 2004 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mosc -thanks for being so elaborate and graphic on this subject. I appreciate it.

Thanks also for your comments on Reaktor. I looked into it too, but it didn't seem as performer-oriented (which is crucial to me).

What I'm wondering, and what you maybe could answer:

I don't know if you are familiar with the NordLead3, but this fabulous synthesizer has the wonderfully easy way of assigning morph groups to parameters simply by holding down a morph source button and then tweaking the range on the LED-knobs on any of the parameters (meaning: two LEDs show on the collar of the knob: upper and lower range limits). ...the best UI I've ever laid hands on.

Does a similar concept exist for the G2? Meaning: Can one assign morph groups to any of those 120 panel parameters with a similar panel-based procedure? (Or is the handling of morphs and morph ranges relegated to the editor only? ...which would be a drawback, since fine-tuning morphs to one's playing style is something that one would obviously want to do while playing, in a "hands-on" style. I can't warm to the idea of ripping on the keyboard to see if the velocity response feels right and then always have to turn over to grab the mouse and twiddle finnicky knobs on a screen...)

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mosc
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2004 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

You had to send me to the manual for this one. Very Happy

Yes, the G2 is very much the same way. There are 8 morph groups and you can assign any parameter to any group. You can even assign a parameter to multiple groups. This is easy to do in the editor. Of course, you can adjust the range that the morph control has on the target parameter.

You can also do this from the front panel If a parameter is already assigned to a knob, then adjusting the morph range is quite easy. Pretty much like you describe. Apparently they like what they did with the Lead and reused the technique with the G2. The morph range shows up on the knob as two LEDs lit up. I can't say I have the same need to do this as you, but I did try it out on a test patch and it worked. Maybe I'll use it sometime, now that I know about it. Laughing

Actually, now that I see how this is done, it's easier to make these range adjustments from the keyboard than with the mouse.

I don't know where Oxford, PA is. I live in Allentown. You are welcome to come over and look the G2 over. If you'd like to do this, please us the PM feature to contact me about this. (Opps, sorry Shoshin, I confused you with Tee. Switzerland is a long way from Allentown to tavel to look at a synthesizer. Tee, however...)
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Tim Kleinert



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2004 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mosc -thanks for looking into this for me.

I'm a performer and keyboard player, and having intuitive hands-on control on how velocity and performance controllers affect the sound is crucial to me.

Now that I know this, the G2 is most definetely my dream synth. I'm even considering getting TWO of these dudes.

Very kind of you to offer a tryout. But yes -the States aren't exactly in my neighborhood. Wink

Hoped to make it to the Frankfurt Musikmesse to check out the G2, but unfortunately I'm in the middle of a concert series then. Too bad.

After too many bad experiences, I swore to forever adhere to the adage "try before you buy" -but this time I might make an exception. I like what I hear, I like what I see, I like what I know -and from using Nord2 and Nord3 for years, I know what to expect in terms of quality and sound.

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mosc
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2004 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yes, the G2 sounds much better than I thought it would. You'll be able to make very beautiful sounds for keyboard playing - with an external keyboard, of course. If you have experience with Nord2 and Nord3 then you know more or less what your getting into. There really is something about the "Swedish thinking". Smile

Here's a quick recording I just made of one of the factory demo patches called BriteTine. I'm running through the 8 variations to give an idea of what variations can do. It sounds really beautiful in 24 bit 96 Khz out of the G2. This MP3 doesn't sound as nice, but it gives you an idea. Nice keyboard sounds aren't something one normally expects from a modular system.


g2-sounds.mp3
 Description:
Howard Moscovitz

Simple improvization on the G2 to demo factory sound.

copyright 2004 by Howard Moscovitz

Download
 Filename:  g2-sounds.mp3
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Last edited by mosc on Tue Mar 16, 2004 8:41 am; edited 1 time in total
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egw



Joined: Feb 01, 2003
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2004 6:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

nice!
I don't have that patch - they must have made a new set of factory patches for V1.1
I'll be sure to download them now.
How many voices do you get with BriteTine?
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mosc
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2004 8:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

egw wrote:
nice! How many voices do you get with BriteTine?


On my machine with just slot "A" activated, 11.

I should have recorded playing with the sustain pedal held down. It's amazing how well Clavia handled the voice stealing algorithms. With 11 voices you'd think playing with the pedal down would start generating truncated notes. I'm sure it does, but I can't hear them. Hmmm... Bad ears or good algorhythm? scratch
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Tim Kleinert



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2004 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mosc -thanks for sharing this demo with us.

It sounds great. I'm amazed at the sonic depth that comes through, despite mp3.

I don't know what you mean by "swedish thinking" -but so far Clavia gear has always been the best, IMO.
I like companies that think like real musicians when designing gear. Clavia, IMO, is the only one that has understood that the user interface is actually more important for getting musical results than anything else. That's why their older stuff also still holds up so well -because it's so damn great to use. Great concepts are never outdated.

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mosc
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2004 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The "Swedish Thinking" is a line from a Clavia magazine ad. It refers to the wooden pitch stick. At first I thought the pitch stick was a bad idea, but I've come to love it - perfect for virbrato. Very expressive.
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Tim Kleinert



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2004 2:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

aha, the pitch stick Laughing ...

...needs getting used to. But I'm going to hook up a MIDI controller to the G2 anyway for playing the niftier stuff -I heard that the G2 keyboard action isn't exactly too great, and way too small.

I heard that maybe Clavia at some point might consider a second version of the G2, with a bigger and better keyboard. I doubt it. Anyway, the small size of the unit makes it very handy for toting around and putting it next to a computer for patching. I sort of like it's small size.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2004 7:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

shoshin wrote:
aha, the pitch stick Laughing ...

I heard that the G2 keyboard action isn't exactly too great, and way too small.

Yes, if you are a keyboard player, this won't suffice. The G2 is relatively small so it's fairly protable, but without the keyboard itself, it would be grand. If they made a 5 octave board, I'd trade in my 3 octave one for it. While the action is very poor, for the kinds of stuff I play in live performance, it would suffice and it would save me carrying around a dedicated MIDI keyboard. I use the Roland A-37. The action on that isn't all the fantastic either, but it is six octaves and very light. Cointrollers are a matter of personal taste.
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Tim Kleinert



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2004 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Coincidence -I was planning on getting an A-37 too.

It's the only keyboard controller which can manage 2 independent keyzones (as split or layer) and has a foot controller input as well.(...exept if you go for one of those big 88 key masterkeyboards. But they're too big and too heavy and they cost more)

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2004 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yes. It is very easy to change the split point. You can do it on the fly. It's a compromise, but how wants to lug around a keyboard it takes two people to carry and won't fit in a car? I rarely play splits, I've just gotta have octaves to move around in. Cool
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tee



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2004 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I guess that you can only have two patches split of the keys on the G2. If you attach a midi keyboard to the G2 will you be able to control a third patch then? Or as with your Roland A-37 four all together?
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Tim Kleinert



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2004 12:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I intend to use the G2 multitimbrally, playing a slot from it's own keyboard as well as having access to two others from the controller. I don't use splits, but being able to switch on/off 2 independent keyboard layers is essential for my performance. The A-37 is the only synth-type-keyboard controller that can do that.

I wonder: does the A-37 have keyboard-range octave-up/down switches (for keyboard range adjustment)?
I spotted an "up/down" button pair on a JPEG, but maybe that's only for data entry. mosc -enlighten me once more please Wink, thanks.

Concerning G2 multitimbral usage, I'm will most definetely be getting the voice expansion board.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2004 7:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

shoshin wrote:
does the A-37 have keyboard-range octave-up/down switches (for keyboard range adjustment)?

Not like the Nord, no. You can transpose the keyboard, or splits, up and down, but it's really not a playable operation, IMHO. I don't know all that much about the A-37. I just use it as a keyboard, usually just playing on channel 1 with no layers. You can split it very easilly while playing if you need to. It's just press the split button and press a key. It's got enough octaves to be workable.

There are really powerful keyboard splits available on the G2. It's amazing actually. I you wanted to, and you were flexible, you could play several independent voices from the G2's keyboard. I'm not that flexible. Wink
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egw



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2004 8:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

On the G2 you can create a patch that does pretty much any midi processing that you want. E.g. you could have 16 splits on the keyboard (maybe for drum sounds).
I have a patch that uses the variation buttons to switch between sending on different midi channels. They control sounds on an external module (XL-7) so I can have instant access to eight different sounds.
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mosc
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2004 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ahhh Haaa!

This is very interesting. Would you be so kind as to post this patch or something similar on the patch forum. I'm just starting to explore the G2's MIDI processing capability.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2004 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Here's the patch:

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

The part you can't see is that for each variation 1-8, the midi send channel is the same number 1-8. Pitchstick info is sent as midi CC 12.
The column on the right uses the knobs on the G2 to send other midi info specific to the way I use the XL-7 (filter, envelope, arpeggiator on/off).
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