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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » fonik's place
PS3100 Resonator PCBs
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krisp14u



Joined: Nov 11, 2006
Posts: 206
Location: uk

PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi all got some worse/best price case scenarios for VTL5C3/2 in Europe

if the uk taxman dose his worst and if you give him the opportunity he will

the best will be 1.50 GBP / 2.25 EUR

the worst will be 2.00 GBP / 3 EUR

there will be postage on top of this at cost using the British postal service

a minimum order of 3 x VTL5C3/2

payment by paypal only unless its in GBP

i will give it a week to take orders by PM and then that will be it

i'm getting 40 for my self as a life time buy ( should last 6 months )

mono-poly wrote:

I am not ready for baby's yet.

Wink


LOL I had a baby girl or my partner did on the 11th of feb and its better than anything i've ever had before

paul darlow

Last edited by krisp14u on Fri Feb 16, 2007 4:30 pm; edited 1 time in total
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fonik



Joined: Jun 07, 2006
Posts: 3755
Location: Germany
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 4:13 pm    Post subject:
Subject description: DEADLINE FOR PREORDERS
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okay, we now have more than 40 pre-orders/reservations.

i will accept more pre-orders/reservations until
WEDNESAY 21 FEB 07, 12:00 UTC


then the PCBs will be manufactured. from then on further reservations are possible but when the PCBs eventually arrive they will be sold to all who made pre-orders before deadline 21feb07/1200UTC.
remaining PCBs will be sold to the later pre-orders according to list.
(as clear as mud)

so if you want one, hop on the bus!

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ickystay



Joined: Nov 15, 2006
Posts: 139
Location: Oregon

PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Great price! I'll take 2 boards, please!
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kryptic



Joined: Feb 16, 2007
Posts: 40
Location: somewhere

PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi. You can put me down for 2, please.
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kk74



Joined: Feb 15, 2007
Posts: 1
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 12:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Put me down for two boards, please.
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bubblechamber



Joined: Nov 04, 2006
Posts: 276
Location: NYC
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 11:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I have a few VTL5C1s around, will those work ok in this design?
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goodrevdoc



Joined: Sep 11, 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 11:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The /2 in the name means that the LDR side has 3 pins, so no, probably not.
-justin
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andrewF



Joined: Dec 29, 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 2:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

You can use them but will need 6 rather than 3 and it will require some 3D design work. I will be using 6 Macron Opto-controlled resistors which have just 2 pins, ie - a single resistor inside. They must be wired so the LEDs are in series. I will need 6 too!
You can always roll your own too - a couple of optoresistors, 1 LED and a lot of black electrical tape.
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jksuperstar



Joined: Aug 20, 2004
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Nothing big, but I don't know how much of a perfectionist you are.

The Silk Screen for T3 is labeled "freq2" on the board, I think it should be freq3? Like I said, I don't care (it will all be invisible behind the rack face), but thought you should know!
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fonik



Joined: Jun 07, 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

bubblechamber wrote:
I have a few VTL5C1s around, will those work ok in this design?

not, they won't, i guess. the number after the C indicates the material and thus the on/off resistances:
VTL5C1: on resistance 600R (10mA); off resistance 50M.
VTL5C3: on resistance 5R (10mA); off resistance 10M.
that's quite a difference!
you could use such VTL5C1 but a lot of resistor values and the filter caps will have to be changed then, i think..

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matthias
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Scott Stites
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Janitor


Joined: Dec 23, 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Any optocoupler will work with adjusted values - lower the capacitance slightly and perhaps decrease the current limiting resistors a small tad (not too much, you don't want to pull too much current through the LEDs). There might be some variation in sweep response, but probably nothing to worry about. Response from fast control transients will certainly be different from type to type. Slower LDRs will obviously slew the response more so than faster LDRs. All will apply their particular response curve to any CV.

Another method to adapting different value LDRs is adjusting the resistance you place in parallel with them. The parallel resistance determines the max low value resistance (low frequency response) and also serves to slightly increase the high frequency response.

Fonik, I have a pretty good idea you're not getting anywhere near 5 ohms resistance. Portions of the Vactec datasheets mystify me a tad, and that's one of the things that always leaves me scratching my head. The five ohms resistance rating is at max allowable current and after 24 hours of dark time. Funny thing about LDRs is the light memory. After being dark a good long while, they will go to a much lower resistance when light is first applied, but quickly develop a memory, meaning later they won't go quite that low in resistance with the same amount of light applied. I don't think that entirely explains why such a low reading is spec'ed (dunno why entirely, unless it's because of my LED popping chickenhood). In my experience, I've never gotten near that reading with any VTL5C3. I don't make it a practice to push that much current through the LED, and haven't pushed it that far (except very briefly, by accident, I've far exceeded it. But the millisecond or so before the LED expired didn't give quite enough time to make any measurements Very Happy ). Still, I've come close, and they don't seem to approach anything near 5 ohms.

Be that as it may, if you have the opportunity to measure the resistance of the LDRs out of circuit, you'll probably be surprised at how many ohms your minimimum resistance actually is. You'll probably be surprised even by the in-circuit measurement.

This also will explain why operation at 12V vs 15V will vary - frequency response is directly attributable to how much current you pull through the LEDs. The more current, the lower the resistance, the higher the frequency response will be. 12V will supply less current than 15V, so, at 12V, the high end won't go quite as high without adjusting the current limiting resistor value or the cap value. Best way to determine these things would be on a breadboard. Well, at least for me. Smile

Cheers,
Scott
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fonik



Joined: Jun 07, 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Scott Stites wrote:
12V will supply less current than 15V, so, at 12V, the high end won't go quite as high without adjusting the current limiting resistor value or the cap value. Best way to determine these things would be on a breadboard.

thank you scott for your great explanation - very helpfull and much appreciated. and i agree: breadboard would be the best way...

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bubblechamber



Joined: Nov 04, 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

thanks for all the input...looks like i'll be ordering some VTL5C3/2s.
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fonik



Joined: Jun 07, 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jksuperstar wrote:
Nothing big, but I don't know how much of a perfectionist you are.
The Silk Screen for T3 is labeled "freq2" on the board, I think it should be freq3? Like I said, I don't care (it will all be invisible behind the rack face), but thought you should know!

yep, and we don't need a typo so i already took care of it... was just too lazy to upload a new screenshot. thumright

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sascha neudeck



Joined: Feb 19, 2007
Posts: 10
Location: vienna

PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 5:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Put me down for one board, please.

cheers
sascha
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Fernando



Joined: Dec 30, 2006
Posts: 207
Location: Barcelona, Spain

PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I luckily found this thread on-time!

I sign for TWO PCBs, please Fonik

Thanks a million for the effort!

Fernando

PS Not shure if I can see it clearly: can the board be held by the pots? (= are the pots on the edge of the board?)
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fonik



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

no, the PCB is not gonna be held by the pots. i see no sense in doing this since you don't know what format people use.
me, if i etch PCBs for myself design them to be held by the (cliff) jack sockets mounted on 20mm grid Shocked

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bugbrand



Joined: Nov 27, 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hiya (I been umm-ahh...)

Two for me please!

And, Paul Krisp4u -- I'd take at least 12 vacts out of your order, maybe more...

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synthmonger



Joined: Nov 16, 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Put me down for two. Or one if someone else wants one (I don't wanna be greedy Wink ).
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Fernando



Joined: Dec 30, 2006
Posts: 207
Location: Barcelona, Spain

PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 4:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

fonik wrote:
no, the PCB is not gonna be held by the pots. i see no sense in doing this since you don't know what format people use.
me, if i etch PCBs for myself design them to be held by the (cliff) jack sockets mounted on 20mm grid :shock:


thank you.

I use bananas so I preffer boards being hold by the pots (+ nuts are more reliable than jack nuts, imho)

For me, the ideal "universal" pcbs would be not taller than the Euro rack format (the smallest 3U) and not deeper than an SKB pop-up maximum depth (5'' minus enclosure, etc). Then if the board has to be taller it can lay horizontally on 3U systems. And if even more area is needed have two boards.
And held by the pots so it's universal also respect to the choosen connectors.
This way the board can be used within any format and be held very easy/fast. One can always reinforce using a bracket to hold it better.

thanks again
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Etaoin



Joined: Jun 30, 2005
Posts: 760
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 4:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:

And held by the pots so it's universal also respect to the choosen connectors.


Yes, but not with respect to the pots. Not everyone uses the same pots or pot spacing, after all.
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Fernando



Joined: Dec 30, 2006
Posts: 207
Location: Barcelona, Spain

PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 5:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Etaoin wrote:
Quote:

And held by the pots so it's universal also respect to the choosen connectors.


Yes, but not with respect to the pots. Not everyone uses the same pots or pot spacing, after all.


True, you are right.
You may held the board with one pot only if it's not very heavy (in case the type of pot suits you)
You may hold it with brackets only if you have to follow a MOTM pitch pattern or similar.

But in any case I think an universal pcb would be more popular-oriented (cheap and versatile), people using MOTM format (for example) are most of the times buying MOTM modules and so on more than DIY pcbs...

I'm just thinking in an universal format now that Ken is (will) migrating the CGS designs to fit into Euro rack format, as well as Elby (Panther series), Plan B, Cinthya, etc., etc.
Then trying to think what aspects could do the pcbs more universal...

By instance, I like the Bugbrand XR2206 VCO pcb very much because is compact and you can use the pots to hold it. The pots are very close to each other so I think I will wire or omitt the fine-tune to allow for a big knob for coarse-tune. Because it's a small pcb you can use it in 3U, 4U, 5U whatever (obv.)
Elby Designs will release an 8038 vco pcb that you will be able to hold by one pot and connectors. So you can add a metal bracket or use brackets only, etc.
Same with the new CGS Steiner filter Euro version.

Anyway, is one little obsession of mine =:) I'm not commenting on our lovely Fonik resonators pcb just to clarify!
I just would love that we could define some guides so when someone design a pcb can choose to follow some or all of the guides to make life easier to more/less SDIYers...

Last edited by Fernando on Tue Feb 20, 2007 7:56 am; edited 1 time in total
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Etaoin



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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 5:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:

But in any case I think an universal pcb would be more popular-oriented (cheap and versatile), people using MOTM format (for example) are most of the times buying MOTM modules and so on more than DIY pcbs...


Not sure. See how much 5U DIY Yusynth is producing...

Quote:

By instance, I like the Bugbrand XR2206 VCO pcb very much because is compact and you can use the pots to hold it. The pots are very close to each other so I think I will wire or omitt the fine-tune to allow for a big knob for coarse-tune.


Same here. I have the pots on there at the moment to test it, but I will rewire it when I make a front panel. My DIY modular is FracRack(-ish) with pot spacing to my own design. So nothing will ever fit right away anway Wink

Quote:
Because it's a small pcb you can use it in 3U, 4U, 5U whatever


Large PCBs usually are no problem if you have enough depth in you modular. I have a Digisound VCO that sticks out quite a bit behind the panel, for example. Same goes for the original CGS Steiner and VCO.

I use plastic brackets by the way. A lot easier to make and it doesn't really matter if they are a bit flexible. My modular won't be moved around a lot (if ever).
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CJ Miller



Joined: Jan 07, 2007
Posts: 371
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 7:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

What a great coincidence, I just decided last weekend to make a few PS3100 resonators! Now there's these gorgeous PCBs!

If I may, I am definately down for three of these. Thank you so much for doing this project.
CJ
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fonik



Joined: Jun 07, 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 5:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

okay, that's it! as said before i close the list of advance-orders now. nevertheless i'm still taking requests and will start a waiting-list.

everybody who made an advance order got a PM already.
i will take no money as long as i have not got the PCBs and populated and tested at least one board. so don't hurry.

the production and delivery of the PCBs will take at least two weeks.

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matthias
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