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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Jürgen Haible designs
frequency shifter
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Serenadi



Joined: Jul 03, 2007
Posts: 89
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2010 4:14 pm    Post subject: the shifter is done! Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jhaible wrote:
That explains a lot. As with every division by (almost) zero, the tinyest side effect will gain unexpected influence.

I see. Division by Zero makes it clear. Thank you.

Now I completed both frequency shifters, they are really funny. I think I've done the adjustment correctly, but two questions left.

- 4th step of calibration (CV rejection of compander):

the minimized level of the cmp_out is still approx. 1Vpp as you can see in the following screenshot of the oscilloscope:

OUT_CMP

(the cmp signal is the upper one, yellow, the fed sine is the blue one)

compared to the minimized sum output, which disappears in a noisefloor (again the yellow one).

OUT_SUM

The diff_out is like the sum_out.

Is that correct?


- I found no hint to the two jumper connectors near pin 1 of U10/12, right beside R59/78. Referring to the schematics of the mainboard, they set the input of the 1496 either to ground or to +vb.

What are they for?

Thanks,
Bernd
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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
Audio files: 24

PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2010 5:23 am    Post subject: Re: the shifter is done! Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Serenadi wrote:
jhaible wrote:
That explains a lot. As with every division by (almost) zero, the tinyest side effect will gain unexpected influence.

I see. Division by Zero makes it clear. Thank you.

Now I completed both frequency shifters, they are really funny. I think I've done the adjustment correctly, but two questions left.

- 4th step of calibration (CV rejection of compander):

the minimized level of the cmp_out is still approx. 1Vpp as you can see in the following screenshot of the oscilloscope:

OUT_CMP

(the cmp signal is the upper one, yellow, the fed sine is the blue one)

compared to the minimized sum output, which disappears in a noisefloor (again the yellow one).

OUT_SUM

The diff_out is like the sum_out.

Is that correct?


It's been a long time since I wrote down (and performed) that adjustment procedure, but I remember the CV rejection adjustment was performed with a rather brutal signal, to make the adjustment easy. Don't expect the signal to br really zero in that test; just minimize it to get the best out of your LM13600. You can still try a different chip - they vary a lot - but I don't think it's necessary. Test conditions are to exaggerate the effect, fo rcomfortable adjustment, and they don't reflect what's happening in normal operation.

JH.

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"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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Serenadi



Joined: Jul 03, 2007
Posts: 89
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I recently finished my modular frequency shifter. A tribute to Jürgen!

I dropped some features to fit the space on the front.
But with many patches I made until now, I didn't lack something.
On the other hand, I modified a little (thanks to Dave @ ModularSynthesis.com and funky40 for some suggestions).

Here's a picture of the front:

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

What I did:
I dropped
- the gain pot (used a trimmer instead) because of the modular levels
- the out level pots
- the range fine pot
- the possibility to switch 'sum' and 'diff' outs and bypass them

I modified and added:
- a buffered VCO Out and normalized it to the input
- a feedback loop with the aux input hard wired as feedback level
- polarized inputs for both exp and lin modulation, with a center tapped pot for lin mod and a dedicated switch for exp mod.

I dropped the green signal LED also. I tested the shifter with mic sensitivity and noticed a noise / hiss with the signal LED flickering when turned up the mic gain fully.
But maybe this was depending on the the rough wiring.

I found out that carefull wiring is very important for the clearness and defined sound of the shifter, so I wired every audio connection shielded.

My second fs1a I will build into a 19" enclosure for common purposes. I think it will be full-fledged.


@Jürgen:
First, thanks for this fine device.
One question I have:
Is there a special reason why you didn't link the groundplanes on both sides of the second pcb (mic preamp, dome filter etc.)? Instead you designed many solder joints for the groundplanes on the different sides around the pcb.

I bend the legs of a jumper connector and soldered it to one of these joints. See this picture:
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
So I can set the groundplane of the component side to ground. Until now there are no problems, but I would like to know the reason. Thanks.

cheers,
Bernd
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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
Audio files: 24

PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Grounding is such a complex issue, depending on so many external factors (what kind of grounding you have in other devices that are connected, on your enclosure, and so on), that I simply provided as much flexibility as possible. Using a jumper is a good choice to test whatever works better in your environment. I guess in most cases you won't see any difference at all.

JH.

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"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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intercorni



Joined: Jun 04, 2007
Posts: 50
Location: hamburg

PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 8:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

What are the Frequency and the Direction LEDs?
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sduck



Joined: Dec 16, 2007
Posts: 441
Location: Nashville
Audio files: 5

PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

There's a video back on page 19 of this thread that shows those 2 leds in action. Basically the Dir led indicates which way the shift is happening - it's a two color led, and in mine green means it's shifting up, and red is downshifting. The freq led basically pulses along with the freguency of the carrier signal - at no shift it's cycles really slowly, at higher shifts it speeds up.
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neandrewthal



Joined: May 11, 2007
Posts: 672
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Here's my newly completed frequency shifter Very Happy

I used Dave's mods for the output gain and inverting attenuator for the expo FM.

I can't believe it works! My patience (which was severely tested, spending 12 hours making sure everything was right while populating the PCB's) has paid off. I really didn't want to troubleshoot it.

This thing is so fun! Thanks so much Jurgen! (and sduck and Dave for helping me figure things out)


Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.[/i]

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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
Audio files: 24

PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Looks great!
Are these colour coded 1/4" jacks?

JH.

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"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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sduck



Joined: Dec 16, 2007
Posts: 441
Location: Nashville
Audio files: 5

PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

That is just about the most incredibly great panel I've ever seen. You sir, win he biggest knob prize. FWIW.
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neandrewthal



Joined: May 11, 2007
Posts: 672
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 11:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jhaible wrote:
Looks great!
Are these colour coded 1/4" jacks?

JH.


Thanks! Yeah, I color code all my nuts and washers with spraypaint.



sduck wrote:
That is just about the most incredibly great panel I've ever seen. You sir, win he biggest knob prize. FWIW.


Who, me? Shocked Very Happy Embarassed

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adambee7



Joined: Apr 04, 2009
Posts: 420
Location: united kingdom

PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 7:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

like the big shift knob. Thats a great build man. still need to finish mine. Very Happy Very Happy
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neandrewthal



Joined: May 11, 2007
Posts: 672
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Here's a quick vid I made with the FS1A. It was supposed to feature more tweaking of the shifter but my camera batteries died Sad It also features the living VCOs and the Interpolating Scanner acting as a waveshaper.


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TekniK



Joined: Aug 10, 2008
Posts: 1062

PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Cooool
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Luka



Joined: Jun 29, 2007
Posts: 1002
Location: Melb.

PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 3:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

sounds great andrew!!
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zthee



Joined: Feb 20, 2008
Posts: 413
Location: Stockholm

PostPosted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 7:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

Made a new panel for my FS-1A!

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TekniK



Joined: Aug 10, 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 7:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

awesome

Why you did not used a brushed aluminium panel?
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zthee



Joined: Feb 20, 2008
Posts: 413
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Couldn't figure out how to get that option and the grains right from Schaeffer.

And it seemed like the least important thing to me.

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TekniK



Joined: Aug 10, 2008
Posts: 1062

PostPosted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

ah ,yes ofcource,you use schaeffer.
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zthee



Joined: Feb 20, 2008
Posts: 413
Location: Stockholm

PostPosted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

But ofcourse Smile Have to say I'm very pleased with it!

Here's a TR-606 and the FS-1A:

http://thehumancomparator.net/tmp/fs-1a-1.mp3
http://thehumancomparator.net/tmp/fs-1a-2.mp3

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TekniK



Joined: Aug 10, 2008
Posts: 1062

PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 2:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

yes sounds good.

Zthee are yu willing to share your panel layout?
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Dego



Joined: Apr 22, 2008
Posts: 139
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

TekniK wrote:
yes sounds good.

Zthee are yu willing to share your panel layout?


The panels are for sale in a thread in the DIY section at muffwiggler. Smile
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TekniK



Joined: Aug 10, 2008
Posts: 1062

PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Dego wrote:
TekniK wrote:
yes sounds good.

Zthee are yu willing to share your panel layout?


The panels are for sale in a thread in the DIY section at muffwiggler. Smile


Yes iv seen that he sell some panels
(btw i think all panels are sold meanwhile)
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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
Audio files: 24

PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 7:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

temporarily sold out, but will be available again in the 2nd week of December 2010

Got a lot of orders for these, recently.
I'll put them back in stock withing 2 or 3 weeks.
No need to preorder - just order in the 2nd week of December if interested

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)

Last edited by jhaible on Fri Dec 10, 2010 2:21 am; edited 1 time in total
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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
Audio files: 24

PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 2:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

FS-1a PCBs are available again!

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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zarko



Joined: Mar 25, 2010
Posts: 22
Location: France

PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 2:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hello Jürgen.
in my modular i have some attenuators pots, so i decided to omit the 10K log input pot, but the problem is that i can't leave the input aux without a jack plug in, if i don't do that i dsitoy my ears and speakers Sad
I try to solder a 10k resitor between ground and aux in but it's the same problem. For the moment i disconnect the comon of the feedback mode switch.
Would you tell me if there is an other solution to resolve this problem
without add a pot on the front panel because there is no place left.
Thank you.
Have a nice day.
Regards Fred.
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