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 Forum index » Discussion » Diversity in electro-music
Anything but sexist/feminist topics
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Papuna



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

sorry for my english but i just mean:

WHY is there topic about women...

?
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Papuna



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

just said that: music can be differen stiles.. it does not mettes is artist men or women.. does it?
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

No of course it doesn't (matter).

But some feel it does- that's why this part of the forum is here.

My wife makes electronic music too- but you'd never see her discussing it here. However some other people have to discuss these things- which is fair enough.

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Kassen
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 8:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well, sex/gender does matter in music to a lot of cultures.

I believe there are some stringed instruments traditional to Asia that are "supposed" to be played by women and the Australian Aboriginals seem to feel quite strongly that the digeridoo should only be played by men as it would make females infertile.

According to some theories the whole concept of "music" arose from young men trying to attract females so it stands to reason that there would still be behavioural traces of that, despite things like birth control and so on. I wouldn't imagine this to have a very large stylistical influence though, as typically sub-cultures aren't divided along male-female lines, at least not in modern western countries.

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Papuna



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 8:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

common... any man can play any music and an woman can play any music Neutral
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Kassen
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well, if you mean "can" as in "be able to" then yes, most people would be able to learn to play many pieces if they practice (though some pieces and some instruments require a lot of dedication or -for example- unusually large hands.)

However, if you mean "can" in the sense of being "permitted to" or "expected to" then I think you will find a lot of barriers in a various cultures.

I think it's interesting that as the world slowly gets covered with a sort of "mono-culture" the second barrier is increasingly less relevant to many while dedication to mastering a single instrument is becoming a sort of archaic concept as compared to "instant music now" type products.

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Papuna



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

However, if you mean "can" in the sense of being "permitted to" or "expected to" then I think you will find a lot of barriers in a various cultures.

dude what do u mean?

in wich culture can not women play some kind of music?
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laura woodswalker



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Kassen wrote:

However, if you mean "can" in the sense of being "permitted to" or "expected to" then I think you will find a lot of barriers in a various cultures.


Especially in certain parts of the world and in cultures derived from those areas, where women can't even get in a car & drive to the music store to buy equipment. Oh yeah and they can't get a job to afford it. Oh yeah and they can't go out in the street at all without a man.

And certainly if they wanted to perform in public they'd have to have their face covered.

And if they made CDs, some fanatical religious faction would smash them.

We all know what I'm talking about. some of us are lucky to have many opportunities and we forget how bad things can really be.

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Papuna



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 8:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

dude.. and only way is to go in other country.. what a shame Sad
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Kassen
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I just mentioned one example above; in Aboriginal culture there is a strong taboo on women playing the digerido. I believe some African tribal cultures do have a strong musical tradition but with only minimal roles for women. You could also look into Islamic traditions both with regard to religious music (singing) as well as entertainment. A few years ago I was fortunate enough to talk with a Iranian woman who practised a traditional dance that also contained musical elements in the form of clicking small plates and/or rings together, that would be a example of a (musical)dance where it would be considered outrageous if a man were to perform it. I think -but I'm not sure about this- that traditionally flamingo guitar in the Midleteranian region also has gender connotations and limitations.

These phenomena aren't just limited to gender, of course, even in the US in the last century there were strong limits on where black men could perform music. This is likely where "Jazz" got it's name; it was often performed in brothels.

I'm sure there are more to be found if you look, I'm not a anthropologist.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 9:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

laura woodswalker wrote:

Especially in certain parts of the world and in cultures derived from those areas, where women can't even get in a car & drive to the music store to buy equipment.


Well, I can't do that either.

For one thing I don't drive cars, for another there is no parking-space available close to instrument stores in my city.

Fortunately I make my own instruments :¬).

Interestingly, the Iranian dancer I mentioned (she was a physician, by the way) explained to me there is a strong expectancy for performers of this dance to develop their own dish-ring-clicking-device which was one of the elements to it that interested me a lot (in addition to the clicking turning the music-dance relationship into a two-way comunication).

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Papuna



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 9:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well I see that.. but in such country were there is 1st century, does thay have internet? Smile I mean this topic is for WHOM? does anyone of us lives in such country?
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Kassen
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 9:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Papuna wrote:
Well I see that.. but in such country were there is 1st century, does thay have internet? Smile I mean this topic is for WHOM? does anyone of us lives in such country?


This is about gender roles, I don't think those are necisarily related to how technologically advanced a society is. If you don't believe me go out in the street in a dress and high-heeled shoes wearing make-up (if you are a guy) or in a suit with tie and hat (if you are a girl) and report on how people react here.

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Papuna



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

sorry again for my english but as I see now, is this topic about gays and lesbians?

Very Happy
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Kassen
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Papuna wrote:
sorry again for my english but as I see now, is this topic about gays and lesbians?

Very Happy


QED, thanks for your cooperation.

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Papuna



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

actualy I dont like such people... well I mean, gays and lesbians must be quiet and nobody will tought tham, why shoud thay show me who are thay? what shell I answer if my baby (in future i will have i hope) will ask: "why is man wearing dress?" and what if he will put dress and say: "if others why not me?"

what about such people in music, well I think alton john is going in street wit hout fear i am sure Very Happy
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Do you realise that the vast majority of men who like dressing up in womens clothing are in fact hetrosexual and NOT homosexual?? Idea
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Kassen
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Papuna wrote:
actualy I dont like such people... well I mean, gays and lesbians must be quiet and nobody will tought tham, why shoud thay show me who are thay?


Primarily in order to find other gays and lesbians, I suppose, but we can't rule out the possibility that some of them get some amusement out of shocking people.

Quote:
what shell I answer if my baby (in future i will have i hope) will ask: "why is man wearing dress?"


I would suggest "because he likes to".

Quote:
and what if he will put dress and say: "if others why not me?"


I would suggest "because that one's not in your size, let's get you to a tailor, young man", but endless variations on this theme could be found, you could accessorise with a nice hammer?

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

Quote:

what about such people in music, well I think alton john is going in street wit hout fear i am sure Very Happy


Realy? I imagine somebody of his level of fame would be quite concerned about autograph hunters and would wear sunglasses at the very least.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well... realy can not agree that: "cause he likes" is inought...

I have one question: do you agry that gays and lesbians may marry?
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Papuna wrote:
I have one question: do you agry that gays and lesbians may marry?


May? I dunno if your average gay man would want to marry a lesbian? Shocked

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Papuna



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 10:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

no dude, I mean

may gay marry gay
'
or lesbian marry lesbian

what do u think? may thay do that or not?
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Kassen
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yes, I'm strongly opposed to gay marriages. I'm in favour of a separation of church and state and so I am completely against marriage, both straight and gay.

As long as we have marriages for straights I find it only logical that gay couples can marry as well, but it's a less then ideal situation in my opinion.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 10:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Papuna wrote:


what do u think? may thay do that or not?


Of course they should be able to marry. Anyway what is marrage? to many the act of getting married is a religious one and many do not believe in a 'god' either.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

elektro80 wrote:

May? I dunno if your average gay man would want to marry a lesbian? Shocked


Well, tax benefits and no jealousy? Pretty sweet deal, me thinks, I'd take it.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yes Kassen, you are obviously an athiest, but what about gay men and women who are Christian? Shouldn't they have a choice?
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