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 Forum index » Discussion » Schmooze
PCIE solid state hard drive
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dmosc



Joined: Jun 23, 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 4:48 pm    Post subject: PCIE solid state hard drive Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/34065/135/

Here are some numbers from a traditional hard drive:
80MB/s read
60MB/s write
200 IO/sec

Here are some numbers for this beast:
800MB/s read
600MB/s write
100,000 IO/sec

It's flash memory which means it's going to draw less power and generate less heat than a hard drive. It will also be silent. Another interesting thing about it is that it does not use the motherboard's classic SATA disk interface. It hooks directly up to a PCI-E slot which makes it directly routed to the chipset. This will quietly cut down on latency between the processor and drive drastically.

oh, and his answer to "how much?" of $30 per gigabyte is a nice way of saying twenty grand. Still, a 12x drive array is not going to match the I/O numbers and will cost quite a bit anyway (as well as horribly bottleneck through a gigabit lan if you decide you don't want 12x drives in the box you're working with)

Anyway, yay for 160 parallel flash chips
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Low Note



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Has anyone made a prediction on how long it will be before the prices on these come down? I would say that these are worth (to me) maybe... 350 bucks for an 80gb? I could use that for more than everything in my laptop set up, if I partitioned it and was conscious about how many projects i was working on at one time....
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dmosc



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

the first solid state drives are just hitting the market now for laptops. You could put it in a PC I guess but it's only 36 GB so it's not exactly cavernous. The low power/heat/noise are especially useful in the laptop segment. I think the 36GB drives are hitting <$400. They're designed by Sandisk for high end laptops.

The price won't go up for that number of chips, only down and the chips double in size ever 18 months or so. My guess is we'll see the end of the conventional disk drive except for non-speed sensitive bulk archiving by 2010 (my guess, not supported)

In the CF market, the biggest flash drives are now about twice the size of the biggest platter based drives. They're also about an order of magnitude faster. Basically, flash has already completely won over that market. The larger drive sizes are similarly just a matter of time.
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mosc
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 8:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

This is pretty interesting. The shape of things to come. My guess is that a good flash drive would make a computer feel faster than upgrading to the latest processor. With these, virtual memory will really work. Laughing
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elektro80
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 8:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

This shit will be very affordable really soon.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 9:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Not soon enough.
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Oskar



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mosc wrote:
Not soon enough.


It never is! I bought an Ensoniq Mirage in January 1986 for NoK 18000, roughly $2500, less than six months later, the newer, more capable Mirage sold for 12000! AND, they'd started importing the ESQ1 at a similar price, which is the one I'd have preferred anyway. Embarassed

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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mosc wrote:
With these, virtual memory will really work. :lol:


Flash is still not fast to write ... I was hoping FRAM would be the next thing ...

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hybrid drives are on the way. They'll have a few gigs of Flash (for quick boot, or os, or quick hibernation), plus the usual hundreds of gigs of platter storage.

Something like this product listed above will not be coming down in price anytime soon. So few of them are sold, and they are geared for a niche market -- nearline servers. They'd loose too much money if they tried to make this product available to the masses.

Disk Drives in general, are squeezed for literally every cent that's put into them, due to the competition. More engineering goes into those drives than most things we send up in space. No joke. Consider this: Many drives have millions of gates running at speeds at or beyond your processor (multiple GHz). And while the best processors burn 25+ watts, your disk drive electronics burn less than 2 or 3 watts.
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dmosc



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Blue Hell wrote:
Flash is still not fast to write ... I was hoping FRAM would be the next thing ...


it's faster than you're giving it credit for. If you compare it to a traditional platter drive for example, they write quite fast. No, they don't write as fast as traditional DRAM but that's what you have system memory for to begin with. The laptop solid state drives exceed platter based drives in terms of read AND write speeds. That difference will only magnify in a larger 3.5" drive or similar.

I have some experience with 4 drive RAID arrays in traditional PCs and I think there is a tremendous upside in overall performance to be had from the switch to solid state hard drives, particularly in boot up and load times. More often than people like to admit the bottleneck is not your ancient CPU or tiny ram, it's your hard drive.
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elektro80
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The first MacBook Pro with a 64GB SSD
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

dmosc wrote:
it's faster than you're giving it credit for. If you compare it to a traditional platter drive for example, they write quite fast. No, they don't write as fast as traditional DRAM but that's what you have system memory for to begin with. The laptop solid state drives exceed platter based drives in terms of read AND write speeds. That difference will only magnify in a larger 3.5" drive or similar.
.


This is why hybrid drives will prevail over the next few years. They have a few gigs of flash for the OS to quick boot, or hibernate to, and the platters for BIG storage (1 TB will be typical I think). At $7-10 per gig of flash currently, that would be very expensive for a solid state drive. At about $.20 per gig for platters, it's still very affordable. The other difficulty, is that the flash market is consolidating quickly. Companies are loosing too much money. So it makes you wonder if the competition will slow down some.
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cappy2112



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PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

elektro80 wrote:
The first MacBook Pro with a 64GB SSD


For those who rushed out an bought an SSD to boot from-
just don't let your laptop battery ever go dead

https://www.usenix.org/conference/fast13/understanding-robustness-ssds-under-power-fault

We did similar testing on storage devices where I work.
The results are quite eye-opening.

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pyrosonic



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Woah! I'm looking to get a new MBP pretty soon and that's enough (along with the price vs size ratio) to sway me to settle for upgrading to a 7200 rpm instead of an SSD.Thanks for posting!
And it was amusing as hell to read this thread from over 5 years ago on this subject too!

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It has been several years, and I just ordered an mSata SSD card for my laptop to boot with, in addition to the normal disk drive for my data.

The first post was for the server market, and in 5 years, one can now get the following for $160 today, in a 3cm X 5cm size (~1x2inches):

256GB
Sata III
Read performance: Up to 500 MB/s
Write performance: Up to 260 MB/s
Average active power consumption: <200mW
Idle power consumption: <85mW
45,000 IOPs Read (4k)
50,000 IOPs Write (4k)
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