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Roman Sowa's simple AD633 RingMod
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fonik



Joined: Jun 07, 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 3:48 pm    Post subject: Roman Sowa's simple AD633 RingMod
Subject description: PCB layouts (ready for press'n'peel blue)
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this is what i built tonight, waiting for a front panel. layout will be uploaded soon. Roman's Site

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

here is a PDF with a PCB layout ready for press'n'peel blue, providing standard connectors:
http://www.modular.fonik.de/pdf/ad633rm_em.pdf

here the PCB layout i used for my module, providing footprints for cliff sockets (easy panel mount):
http://www.modular.fonik.de/pdf/ad633rm.pdf

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Last edited by fonik on Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:00 am; edited 1 time in total
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EdisonRex
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

okay what does it sound like?

We've been comparing RMs here the past couple of days, you know Wink

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fonik



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

EdisonRex wrote:
We've been comparing RMs here the past couple of days, you know Wink


that's understatement! it took some time to review ian's XOR thread with all the nice samples. i will never ever have enough time to build all this stuff. and actually i wanted to make music!

so here is a short sample. i just plugged the outputs of my TH 8038 dual VCO into the carrier/modulator inputs and the output of the AD633 RM into a SSM2044 VCF. the TH Super Controller controls the pitch of the carrier VCO and triggers the ADSR controlling the SSM2044. 1st sine, 2nd square, 3rd triangle outputs.


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EdisonRex
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

AH! You used the 2044 filter. Lovely. I bet you can get some nice mellow tones with that on low Q, mid Fc (like I heard 3/4 of the way through) and I bet that 2044 will make an awesome gong.

That's yet another interesting circuit. Did you build it with an AD633?

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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

That's definitely RM Very Happy

This looks easier than the elektor one I once built.

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fonik



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 2:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

EdisonRex wrote:
That's yet another interesting circuit. Did you build it with an AD633?

yes, i did. and this IC is not cheap over here. i had to pay 10.-EUR (14.-USD)! but as jan says, it's a very simple circuit. 2 ICs, 2 caps, 13 resistors, 2 trimmers and the controlls.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 3:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

fonik wrote:
this IC is not cheap over here.


I got eight of them for free when it was easier to get samples from analog.com Cool

Still got 4 left... Rolling Eyes

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Fernando



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 6:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Marc Bareille's variation on Roman's circuit is very interesting
He adds a divide function, a Z input, etc
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Serenadi



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Fernando wrote:
Marc Bareille's variation on Roman's circuit is very interesting
He adds a divide function, a Z input, etc


Yeah. Nice too.
In a way, I love all these circuits, but unfortunately I don't have the time to build all that stuff.
A little bit like Matthias, but he's still more busy than me. Very Happy

Fernando, are you able to present a little demo of the z-variation ?

Ian's XOR is very nice too.
Somehow all the circuits produce ringmod sounds which are usable.
But in the end I prefer the real ring of Ken Stone.
It sounds a little bit more natural to me. Don't know how to describe - more bottom or so.
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Fernando



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Serenadi wrote:
Fernando, are you able to present a little demo of the z-variation ?


Nope, sorry. I plan to get a couple of boards but not yet
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Clack



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Nice, quite similar to some yamaha FM sounds.

What are the OP482's about? are they specific - are they rare?

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Rykhaard



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Mr Clack wrote:
Nice, quite similar to some yamaha FM sounds.

What are the OP482's about? are they specific - are they rare?


By slim chance - has anyone in the world done a new opamp comparison's chart of any kind? Bernie Hutchins had done an excellent one years ago in the Electronotes Newsletter. I've seen so many new ones from National Semiconductor, Linear Tech and Analog Devices as well as other smaller companies that my head just swirls about.

I've so far been lucky enough to stick with my old standard TL07x, TL08x and LF35x series for everything. (And of course the trusty ol LM358 for it's wonderful slowness features, in certain things. Very Happy )
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fonik



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 2:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

opamp comparison would be good. with little explanations added not just the specs.

here is a PDF with my PCB layout (for cliff sockets), ready for press'n'peel blue.

http://www.modular.fonik.de/pdf/ad633rm.pdf

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fonik



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 4:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

here is a PDF with a PCB layout ready for press'n'peel blue, providing standard connectors:

http://www.modular.fonik.de/pdf/ad633rm_em.pdf

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Fernando



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 8:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Rykhaard wrote:

By slim chance - has anyone in the world done a new opamp comparison's chart of any kind?


Not what you ask but, the OP275 is a great op amp. Very good for audio and low input offset too, and not expensive for a high quality audio one
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Rykhaard



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 8:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Fernando wrote:
Rykhaard wrote:

By slim chance - has anyone in the world done a new opamp comparison's chart of any kind?


Not what you ask but, the OP275 is a great op amp. Very good for audio and low input offset too, and not expensive for a high quality audio one


It's slipped me for the mo', but who're the OP people?? Wasn't it Precision at one time and then AD bought them?? (Searching through the pile of hay of my ol' timer memory. Very Happy LOL )

I'll check out their specs in comparison to my old standards. I recognize the part # probably, from Ian. Wink And the wonderfully spec'd stuff he likes to use. Very Happy

Edit: $2.48 Canadian at Digikey. $1.98 at 25+. Shocked I'm used to paying $0.50-0.75 a piece. Haha. At least they're not as expensive as them AD75.... D/A chips from other places, that others were talking about for the Quantizer. Shocked Shocked
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Etaoin



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 8:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

fonik wrote:
here is a PDF with a PCB layout ready for press'n'peel blue, providing standard connectors:

http://www.modular.fonik.de/pdf/ad633rm_em.pdf


Great. Not only p'n'p, but these work fine for the photographic method as well. If you ever have time to spare, you might want to consider doing standard layouts for the low pass gate and cv processor as well Wink

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Etaoin



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 8:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
It's slipped me for the mo', but who're the OP people?? Wasn't it Precision at one time and then AD bought them??


I can't find any other datasheets online other than those from AD. Maybe you mean the OPA devices from Burr-Brown? BB was acquired by TI.

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fonik



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Etaoin wrote:
If you ever have time to spare, you might want to consider doing standard layouts for the low pass gate and cv processor as well Wink

especially the LPG will be revised! had some questions about this one...

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EdisonRex
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Rykhaard wrote:
Fernando wrote:
Rykhaard wrote:

By slim chance - has anyone in the world done a new opamp comparison's chart of any kind?


Not what you ask but, the OP275 is a great op amp. Very good for audio and low input offset too, and not expensive for a high quality audio one


It's slipped me for the mo', but who're the OP people?? Wasn't it Precision at one time and then AD bought them?? (Searching through the pile of hay of my ol' timer memory. Very Happy LOL )

I'll check out their specs in comparison to my old standards. I recognize the part # probably, from Ian. Wink And the wonderfully spec'd stuff he likes to use. Very Happy

Edit: $2.48 Canadian at Digikey. $1.98 at 25+. Shocked I'm used to paying $0.50-0.75 a piece. Haha. At least they're not as expensive as them AD75.... D/A chips from other places, that others were talking about for the Quantizer. Shocked Shocked


Burr-Brown was the priciest and most accurate in the old days, if i remember. Then yeah, AD I think made a lot of specialist stuff. There were a lot of small boutiques that Analog Devices bought rights from.
I was a NatSemi fanboi, mostly because I could get samples from their dealer easier than I could get linear stuff out of TI.

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Coriolis



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

A bit confused about this ckt: I thought the 633 was supposed to be so good you didn't need the trimmers? I believe Ray Wilsons simple 633-based RM doesn't have them...

C
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Pehr



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Coriolis wrote:
A bit confused about this ckt: I thought the 633 was supposed to be so good you didn't need the trimmers? I believe Ray Wilsons simple 633-based RM doesn't have them...


Me too, the 633 is laser calibrated, right? Rays RMs works fine without them trimmers anyway. I've got four of them (not the sonic multiplier...yet) Cool

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fonik



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 12:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Pehr wrote:
Coriolis wrote:
A bit confused about this ckt: I thought the 633 was supposed to be so good you didn't need the trimmers? I believe Ray Wilsons simple 633-based RM doesn't have them...


Me too, the 633 is laser calibrated, right? Rays RMs works fine without them trimmers anyway. I've got four of them (not the sonic multiplier...yet) Cool

contacted roman about this. here is what he said:
Now back to the topic, the trimmers are there for nulling out the input
offset of given AD633. They are speced for only a few mV of offset, but
stil this can lead to "carrier leakage". We want the ringmod to be fully
ballanced, that means when you feed it with 2 frequencies, you don't get
them at the output, but only sum and difference of input frequencies.
When AD633 is not trimmed, it is seen by AD633 core as there would be
some DC offset, and it causes simple multiplication by constant value,
which leads to transfering input signal to output at some level of
attenuation. If DC offset is high, attenuation is low and input signal
passes thru easily. When no DC is present, there's no DC component and
in theory no direct path to the output.

In reality all those ringmods I'v made were pretty good without
trimmers. I could null them down to 0, but that appeared as "carrier
leakage" improvement by only a few dB. It was about 50-60dB without
trimming, rised probably by 10dB when trimmed.

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Coriolis



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 2:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

So he's saying it does matter - even with the 633. Well, gotta try it for myself...

Thanks for this fonik!

C
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