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Tellun Neural Agonizer
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numbernone



Joined: Aug 16, 2006
Posts: 477
Location: new york city

PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 9:11 am    Post subject: Tellun Neural Agonizer
Subject description: Best tank size?
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I lucked into a set of agonizer boards just as I was investigating spring reverb options. Anyone with first hand experience here, that might suggest what tank size they find most pleasing?? I am leaning towards the big size 9 tanks.
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neandrewthal



Joined: May 11, 2007
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PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I've been trying to decide for months. I would think bigger is better, but Scott used the small kind for the samples on the tellun site and they sound amazing.
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numbernone



Joined: Aug 16, 2006
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PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I think it should be called the decision agonizer instead.

I am gonna make a freestanding unit, so I am beginning to think I might use the type 1 size.
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neandrewthal



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PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sneakthief has the large type for his. Maybe we can pressure him into finishing it and reporting how it works out Wink
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guitarfool



Joined: Feb 26, 2007
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PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I used the Accutronics 1FB2B1D and got good results. It's such an outrageous reverb module that I don't know how much difference the tank makes. Scott requires them to be "hotrodded" Craig Anderton style, and the 2 tanks can be switched to run in series as it is. Mine gets a lot of use. And yes it is capable of "normal" reverb Very Happy
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sneakthief



Joined: Jul 24, 2006
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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 12:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

hey hey, I'm busting my ass to finish my next full panel which will have the neural agonizer in it:

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

I'm just waiting on a futurlec order that should be here any day. Then I can inundate you all with samples.

I got a couple of 4FB3D1B's from tubesandmore.com

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Photon



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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 6:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I think the most important thing is that you use tanks with the proper impedance. I recommend going with a pair of Accutronics 1FB2B1D's, as recommended by Tellun.
Accutronics have an ebay store, btw. Very easy transaction.

I was planning on building the Neural Ag. into my modular cabinet, but due to space limitations I decided to build a stand alone unit.

I'll post some pictures of mine as progress permits. Good luck with yours.
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numbernone



Joined: Aug 16, 2006
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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 7:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yeah I think I will end up going with the type 1 size, I also found the ebay store so I will order some today.

Sneakthief, your new panel is fantastic, so much good stuff in there. I owuld be insanely jealous if I did not have all of those things in the backlog (mankato is done and awesome however).
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neandrewthal



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 6:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

sneakthief wrote:
hey hey, I'm busting my ass to finish my next full panel which will have the neural agonizer in it:

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

I'm just waiting on a futurlec order that should be here any day. Then I can inundate you all with samples.

I got a couple of 4FB3D1B's from tubesandmore.com


Done yet? Razz

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sneakthief



Joined: Jul 24, 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2008 3:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

yes! what kind of sounds do you want to hear? raw oscillators and such? and some percussive sounds?
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neandrewthal



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2008 7:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

sneakthief wrote:
yes! what kind of sounds do you want to hear? raw oscillators and such? and some percussive sounds?


Any Very Happy

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Funky40



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2008 8:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

neandrewthal wrote:
sneakthief wrote:
yes! what kind of sounds do you want to hear? raw oscillators and such? and some percussive sounds?


Any Very Happy

Laughing


raw oscillatrors might not be so interesting i think, more some percussive stuff on one side and atmospherics on the other,
but "any" is also fine Wink
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neandrewthal



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2008 8:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Funky40 wrote:
neandrewthal wrote:
sneakthief wrote:
yes! what kind of sounds do you want to hear? raw oscillators and such? and some percussive sounds?


Any Very Happy

Laughing


raw oscillatrors might not be so interesting i think, more some percussive stuff on one side and atmospherics on the other,
but "any" is also fine Wink

I'm sure this thing could turn any raw oscillator into a massive drone, especially when you add feedback and voltage control

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Funky40



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2008 8:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

You're right hopefully
I have btw. my Tank cabinet allready built ( since February) , but i must get new Vactrols,
and i was never shure about the Frontpanel layout.
It seems to me that some CV inputs should have attenuators.
any teasing is welcome Wink
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julianw



Joined: Jul 30, 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2008 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I bought the Z-9FB2D1B.

Type 4 reverbs have 4 springs, type 9 have 6 springs, I wanted the richest sound possible, so I chose that one.

The other consideration is the fifth digit, Scott says in the manual, type D is best.

The 6 spring version (type 9) only cost a couple of euros more than the 4 spring version (39 Euro) It is also the one model specifically recommended for the neural agonizer by these guys
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neandrewthal



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2008 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Wow, I can't believe someone advertises a tank as special for the Neural Agonizer. I wouldn't expect anyone but a few of us here geeks to have any knowledge/interest in the project in the first place, let alone guitar tone snobs Razz It's wayyy too expensive for a North American after the conversion, though. Sad

I think I'll go with sneakthief's one because I have the room in my cabinet and it's slightly cheaper than from accutronics.

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vtl5c3



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PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hiya,

The Neural Agonizer docs include info on choosing a spring reverb. I'll paste it in below. Basically, the only requirement is that it has an input impedance of: 1475 Ω and and output impedance of: 2250 Ω

I originally bought two 1FB2B1D tanks from Paia, back when they sold them (2003?). I finally got around to assembling the NA about two weeks ago and determined that one of the tanks has a bad output driver. I decided that I would get a different tank to replace the blown one, just to make the module a bit more interesting. I went to the accutronics website and found a link to the SEPI Group on ebay. Turns out that they will make any of their spring reverb line to whatever specs you request:

http://stores.ebay.com/SEPI-GROUP

Really hard to beat that, eh? Cool

Here's the info from the TLN 156 manual:

7. Choosing Reverb Tanks

The Accutronics Reverb website has all the info you need about their reverb tanks:
www.accutronicsreverb.com. Reverb tank part numbers consist of a seven digit code (my
tanks are #1FB2B1D). Each digit in the part number represents a specification. The
recommended parameters for the TLN-156 are as follows:


1st digit Reverb Type Your choice: 1, 4, 8, or 9.
2nd digit Input Impedance F - 1475 ohm for types 1 and 4,
1925 ohm for types 8 and 9.
3rd digit Output Impedance B - 2250 ohm for types 1 and 4,
2575 ohm for types 8 and 9.
4th digit Decay Your choice: 1, 2, or 3.
5th digit Connectors D - Input Insulated / Output Insulated (best)
B - Input Grounded / Output Insulated (ok)
6th digit Locking Devices Only one choice: 1.
7th digit Mounting Plane Your choice: A, B, C, D, E, or F.
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Luka



Joined: Jun 29, 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

since lots of people seem to be sitting on these pcbs
perhaps a group buy is in order

im keen on the 6 spring tanks, perhaps if we had 10 people buying it would keep the price down

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neandrewthal



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PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Luka wrote:
since lots of people seem to be sitting on these pcbs
perhaps a group buy is in order

im keen on the 6 spring tanks, perhaps if we had 10 people buying it would keep the price down


I'm down if it can happen in the next couple of months.

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sneakthief



Joined: Jul 24, 2006
Posts: 529
Location: Berlin

PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 2:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

When I got my P-R4FB3D1B's, they were $20 US / tank. Now they're $25 which still seems like a good deal.

I suppose the question is whether it's worth paying over twice as much for the other tanks.

Enough chit-chat, let's get down to business and listen to some samples:


1. Raw Saws
http://www.sneak-thief.com/modular/na-saw-deform.mp3

- 2 saws, sweeping through the deform settings, aka Tank A & B Mix settings (A-B, A, A+B, B, B-A). Tank order switched from serial to parallel half-way through.


2. Saw Sequence
http://www.sneak-thief.com/modular/na-saw-seq.mp3

- 2 saw sequence, manually sweeping Stress, Trauma, Deform & tank order


3. Claps
http://www.sneak-thief.com/modular/na-noise-clap.mp3

- White noise triggered by CGS burst generator to make claps, manually sweeping all the pots. Nice surprise: a sync'd lfo connected to the Deform input simulates a gated reverb (?) on this patch. heh.


4. Drums
http://www.sneak-thief.com/modular/na-drums.mp3

- Drums, manually sweeping all the pots

5. Feedback
http://www.sneak-thief.com/modular/na-feedback.mp3

- No input! Manual adjustment of LPF and feedback. Some Stress & Trauma tweaking.


6. Heavy Modulation
http://www.sneak-thief.com/modular/na-heavy-modulation.mp3

- 2 saws + FM. Many LFOs going to Stress, Trauma, Deform. Some things got a little distorted... that feedback is wild. The gain structure is critical to avoid distortion! Things easily get out of hand and will clip if you're not paying attention to the feedback-LPF settings.

As the TLN-156 User Guide states, you may want to recalibrate the gain structure trimmers depending on what kinds of signals you like to process.


Funny errata:

1. My two tanks sound different - as noted when I switch the tanks between Tank A & B input/outputs. One is brighter than the other, even though they have identical model #'s. This is actually a benefit as it gives more potential for the sonic palette of this reverb.

2. I always check the power rails to the IC's before stuffing the boards. All was good so I stuffed the chips, plugged in the boards - then the Stress A pot caught on fire! WTF?? I've never seen that happen before. It was a 16mm Alpha from futurlec. Interestingly, nothing was damaged and everything worked after I replaced the pot.

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Funky40



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 4:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

thank you !
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Luka



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 5:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

killer samples !

So who wants a cheap tank, i just got a quote for Z-9FB2D1B tanks.
If we buy 30 tanks, ie 15 people, the price is only US$15.88 each

Instead of spending near $80 it is only $35 or so

So who is in?

the only proviso, shipping these things might be an issue, we will have to coordinate with the accutronics kids to either ship out to everyone individually or ship to someone's house in the US. I live in Australia so i doubt everyone wants em to come via here.

So with this in mind, who is in?

1. Luke
2. ?

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Cat-A-Tonic



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 5:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
the only proviso, shipping these things might be an issue, we will have to coordinate with the accutronics kids to either ship out to everyone individually or ship to someone's house in the US. I live in Australia so i doubt everyone wants em to come via here.

So with this in mind, who is in?

1. Luke
2. ?

As long as the shipping to Japan is reasonable I'm in.
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sneakthief



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 6:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

that's a great price - $20 cheaper than the other cheapest springs that i know of... so whatever extra shipping costs will easily be offset by the bargain. you should post this on modularsynth.net too.

in any case, i'm really curious about this purported "richness" when using more springs. i was just searching for some kind of comparison online but came up dry (lol). has somebody already written about this?

even better, samples please? Smile

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Luka



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 6:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

listed on modularsynth.net and muffwiggler forums.

here they are

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

Six springs, counter wound, coupled and placed in parallel, combine to create Sound Enhancement Products' fullest, richest reverb effect throughout the full range of musical sound.
Ideally suited for keyboard, sound reinforcement and pedal steel applications.
Outer channel dimensions are 16.75” Length x 4.375” Width x 1.313” Height.


ok so im going to limit this to 30tanks, no more and obviously no less. i was not given a time limit on this so i guess as soon as we hit the 30 mark i will collect all your details and send them to accutronics. I am hoping i can get them to work out the individual shipping costs from the US to all your locations. i am going to try not handle any of your cash either, it would be cool if i could just organise with them to take all your orders. hopefully they will let this happen.

So be aware the price is US$16 per tank + shipping

if you know anyone with a board set and needs tanks please let them know about this groupbuy.

4 springs down, 26 to go.

oh and please only sign up if your 100% and will have money available when it all happens, they are doing us a good favour so i don't want to screw them around.

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